Which particular "bog-standard" ATC instructions are you referring to?

The pilot seems to have complied with all the instructions he acknowledged
receiving that I'm aware of prior to the handoff to SoCal. At that point it
appears that he lost radio contact with ATC and continued on the last vector he
had received. From the LiveATC recording, SoCal's 290 heading assignment
doesn't appear to have been received by the pilot.

N133BW is not on the LiveATC recording after the ATC handoff to SoCal at 01:05
into the recording he
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13234.0;attach=888 3.
That could be a result of many things.

Your assertion that there were transmissions from the aircraft after the
handoff to SoCal that were not captured on the LiveATC recording seems
unfounded. Do you have another source for those transmissions from the
aircraft that you believe are missing on the LiveATC recording?

I agree that the information available to date does not appear to imply a
violation by SoCal controllers.


Here's one ATC controller's comment:

Very familiar with this crash. Pilot went NORDO. Stayed on ATC assigned
vector to his death. Who knows why the pilot stopped listening? Radio
failure? Pilot did not fly his aircraft according to NORDO procedures. He
should have turned onto Final Approach on his own and landed at the
airport. Pilot knew there are high MVA's to the northeast. I think pilot
had the plane on autopilot. Maybe pilot had a heart attack or stroke?
That's why he stopped responding.

We vector aircraft towards terrain everyday. It works great when the pilot
listens and follows instructions.




On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 02:23:47 +0000 (UTC), (Don Poitras) wrote:

It's not just "situational awareness", it was failure to follow bog-standard
instructions. They weren't sending him to DARTS, the were just sending him
far enough out so that they could turn him to intercept the final approach
course. 3000 feet is plenty high enough in that area as long as you turn
back when you're told to. I listened to the recording on LiveATC and the
310/210 thing was just a garbled transmission from ATC that they corrected
when the pilot read back the wrong heading. The 290 heading was given later
to turn him back to intercept the approach course. That's the exact instruction
one would expect to get. Again, he's getting vectors to final, there was no
implication that he was going to fly the full approach and it's pretty unusual
to be asked to do so in LA. You're going to get vectors. Although LiveATC didn't
capture the airplane transmissions after the switch to SoCal approach, it's
pretty clear that the pilot stopped responding after the instruction to turn
left to 290. They tried many times to reach him. We'll probably never know
what happened, but it was either a medical problem or something worse. The
one thing we _do_ know is that SoCal approach did nothing wrong and there was
nothing out of the ordinary in their instructions. They did all they could to
try to save him, including asking another aircraft in the area to listen for
an ELT broadcast to locate him for possible rescue.


Larry Dighera wrote:

Hello Don,

Thank you for your response to my post.

I see what you are saying. The pilot must maintain situational awareness at
all times. However, there are a few troubling things about ATC's instructions
and the preliminary NTSB report.

1. Presumably, before arriving abeam of KLAX, SoCal TRACON instructed the
pilot to fly heading 210 (SW). The pilot then requested a heading of 310 (NW)
instead, according to the ATC audio recording in the video at 00:36 minutes. A
heading of 310 was about direct KSMO. But, the NTSB report states: "the
controller issued the pilot a heading change to 290 degrees and a descent
clearance to 3,000 feet for vectors to final approach." Clearly ATC and the
pilot had different expectations, as the altitude for entry at the DARTS IAF is
4,500' https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1606/pdf/05023VGA.PDF, but the
altitude for BEVEY INT is 2,600'.

2. Then LA CENTER turned the flight to a heading of 030 ostensibly to
intercept the IAF DARTS, but the approach plate indicates that the altitude at
the IAF is to be 4,500', but ATC had previously assigned the flight to 3,000'.
The NTSB report fails to mention the 3,000' altitude assignment that is in the
video
http://www.cbs8.com/story/32010167/air-traffic-controllers-desperately-tired-to-save-san-diego-pilot-before-crash
at 00:55 minutes. There's a flight track log he
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N133BW/history/20160515/1424Z/KMYF/KSMO/tracklog.
There is no indication that the pilot requested nor ATC reassigned the flight a
higher altitude.

3. Then LA CENTER issued an Low Altitude Alert and (01:10 in the video), and
"turn left immediately try to maintain 6,000" (at 02:13 in the video), but
apparently radio communications had been lost before that occurred.

I'm guessing, but from the 210 heading and 3,000' SoCal altitude assignment
instructions, ATC was aiming for a BEVEY INT intercept of the final approach
course, but the pilot intended to fly the full approach from DARTS. The
approach plate indicates that a BEVEY INT entry is for radar vectors. Baring a
medical or mechanical/electrical issue, it appears that the PIC failed to
maintain situational awareness.

Tragic.

Larry


FLIGHT TRACK LOG:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N133BW/history/20160515/1424Z/KMYF/KSMO/tracklog
Time (EDT) Latitude Longitude Course Direction KTS MPH
feet Rate Reporting Facility
Sun 10:37:00 AM Departure (KMYF) @ Sunday 07:37:00 AM PDT Los
Angeles Center
Sun 10:37:20 AM 32.8167 -117.1667 272? West 101 116 1,100
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:38:26 AM 32.8333 -117.2000 301? West 112 129 2,200
796 Climbing Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:39:13 AM 32.8361 -117.2214 279? West 105 121 2,600
606 Climbing Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:40:15 AM 32.8639 -117.2439 325? Northwest 120 138
3,300 683 Climbing Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:41:16 AM 32.8961 -117.2578 340? North 122 140 4,000
738 Climbing Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:42:17 AM 32.9342 -117.2753 339? North 123 142 4,800
732 Climbing Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:43:19 AM 32.9628 -117.2881 339? North 119 137 5,500
554 Climbing Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:44:27 AM 33.0000 -117.3000 345? North 103 119 6,000
246 Climbing Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:45:21 AM 33.0167 -117.3167 320? Northwest 126 145
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:46:27 AM 33.0667 -117.3333 345? North 131 151 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:47:27 AM 33.1000 -117.3500 337? Northwest 130 150
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:49:27 AM 33.1569 -117.3789 337? Northwest 131 151
6,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:50:29 AM 33.1969 -117.3972 339? North 131 151 6,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:51:30 AM 33.2311 -117.4139 338? Northwest 131 151
6,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:52:33 AM 33.2667 -117.4333 336? Northwest 134 154
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:54:33 AM 33.3167 -117.5000 312? West 133 153 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:55:33 AM 33.3333 -117.5333 301? West 133 153 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 10:57:39 AM 33.3911 -117.5944 318? Northwest 132 152
6,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:58:41 AM 33.4231 -117.6317 315? West 132 152 6,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 10:59:28 AM 33.4500 -117.6500 331? Northwest 135 155
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:00:40 AM 33.4833 -117.6833 320? Northwest 136 157
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:01:28 AM 33.5000 -117.7167 301? West 136 157 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:02:28 AM 33.5333 -117.7500 320? Northwest 137 158
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:03:34 AM 33.5500 -117.7833 301? West 138 159 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:04:40 AM 33.5833 -117.8167 320? Northwest 137 158
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:05:40 AM 33.6167 -117.8500 321? Northwest 136 157
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:06:29 AM 33.6333 -117.8833 301? West 135 155 6,000
Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:07:40 AM 33.6667 -117.9167 320? Northwest 138 159
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:08:40 AM 33.7000 -117.9500 320? Northwest 137 158
6,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:09:35 AM 33.7000 -117.9833 270? West 136 157 6,000
-261 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:10:35 AM 33.7333 -118.0333 309? West 151 174 5,500
-500 Descending Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:11:35 AM 33.7500 -118.0667 301? West 154 177 5,000
-550 Descending Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:12:35 AM 33.7667 -118.1167 292? West 153 176 4,400
-500 Descending Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:13:35 AM 33.7833 -118.1667 292? West 157 181 4,000
-267 Descending Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:14:05 AM 33.7969 -118.1886 307? West 153 176 4,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:15:07 AM 33.8158 -118.2303 299? West 148 170 4,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:16:09 AM 33.8350 -118.2725 299? West 147 169 4,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:17:11 AM 33.8622 -118.3069 313? West 156 180 4,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:18:12 AM 33.8981 -118.3442 319? Northwest 147 169
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:19:14 AM 33.9303 -118.3736 323? Northwest 146 168
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:20:16 AM 33.9617 -118.4025 323? Northwest 145 167
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:21:18 AM 33.9992 -118.3850 21? North 150 173 4,000
Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:22:29 AM 34.0333 -118.3333 51? Northeast 146 168
4,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:23:30 AM 34.0667 -118.3167 22? Northeast 145 167
4,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:24:29 AM 34.1000 -118.2833 40? Northeast 145 167
4,000 Level Southern California TRACON
Sun 11:26:28 AM 34.1586 -118.2178 43? Northeast 148 170
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:27:29 AM 34.1897 -118.1858 41? Northeast 148 170
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:28:31 AM 34.2214 -118.1539 40? Northeast 148 170
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:29:32 AM 34.2517 -118.1225 41? Northeast 148 170
4,000 Level Los Angeles Center
Sun 11:37:00 AM Arrival (KSMO) @ Sunday 08:37:00 AM PDT Revised



https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1606/pdf/05023VGA.PDF

On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 20:19:49 +0000 (UTC), (Don Poitras) wrote:

Nonsense. They vectored him for an instrument approach into Santa
Monica when he was just passed LAX. He never responded to later
instructions and flew another 15 minutes at 150 knots straight
into the hills to the north east. If ATC hadn't given him that
heading, he wouldn't have been able to fly the approach. Here's
a similar flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...122Z/KMYF/KSMO


Larry Dighera wrote:


The Air Traffic Controller issued the flight a heading of 030 (toward the
mountains), evident in this video
http://www.cbs8.com/story/32010167/air-traffic-controllers-desperately-tired-to-save-san-diego-pilot-before-crash.

But that vector appears to have been omitted from the NTSB report.

At this point, it looks like ATC made an error to me.

--------------------------
You can see where the 030 sent the flight on maps on this page:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/0...san-diego.html