Actually, I would disagree with the lack of a need for extreme
maneuvering due to missiles being used. There is no technical need for
extreme maneuvering as both the AIM-120 and the upcoming AIM-9X (along
with most Russian, European, and Israeli missiles) are very capable at
killing an aircraft at range. However, the likehood of the rules of
engagement allowing a pilot to take a missile shot without visually
IDing the target is slim and none. And given the conflicts we are likely
to see in the next 10-20 years, a visual ID is always going to be
required as part of the ROE. Once you are in visual range, you are in a
furball. Now the AIM-9X with the high of boresight firing capability
might allow you to take a shot in the merge and thus prevent you from
getting into a full up furball but you are still going to have to close
with the other aircraft and that gives him a chance to take a shot at
you. Now once visual sensors catch up and allow a pilot to ID a target
from range then the need for extreme maneuvering could be reduced.

Chris

Big John wrote:

Paul

Must have read this in AW&ST ..................but some time ago???
Isn't it two axis (up and down)?

My ramble still stands I guess. Not much need for extreme maneuvering
with missiles that can be fired at a distance and off axis.

Air to ground gun firing (train busting) doesn't require extreme
maneuverability either.

Let me put question to one of my classmates (USAF test pilot school
graduate). If I can find him in retirement. He was still doing some
consulting a couple of years ago.

One thing that is possible is that thrust vectoring causes less drag
then deflecting the elevator in a high speed high 'G' turn???

Big John
Point of the sword

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:38:03 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Big John said:
We have been experimenting with it for some time and flying test
articles. Don't believe any of our birds (even F-22 and F-35) have it
incorporated? You can do lots of things with vectored thrust on tail
pipe if in a 1 v 1 'fur ball'.

The F-22 has thrust vectoring. See
http://www.af.mil/lib/airpower/airpower_specs.shtml