"Ed Majden" wrote:


"Ed Rasimus"
Certainly the F-104 was an aeronautical marvel. It was an incredible
achievement. But give me an F-22 (or for that matter, an F-15, or -16)
and I'll promise to mort the Zipper long before the merge--even before
he knows there is going to be a merge.

In part, I agree but aren't you making an un-fair comparison? Modern
electronics give these new aircraft their superior capability. Don't forget
that the F-104 was designed with 1950's technology. It's just like
comparing TV sets. The old tube designs packed up ever few months where the
new solid state types seem to last forever. I think that Rutan was trying
to point out that airframe wise, there isn't that much of an improvement
with today's designs. He thinks that modern fighters should be much faster
and higher performers than they are. The stealth fighter would be
impossible to fly without the on board flight control computers that control
them. The 104 radar was pretty Mickey Mouse as compared to modern FCS
radars. If fitted with an up-dated system it would still be a high
performer, at least as good as an F-16 I would think. I would hope that
modern aircraft would be more reliable. Any of you pilot types fly both
types?

Well, haven't you made my argument for me? Rutan was indicated as
saying (I didn't see the show, but someone else provided the start of
this thread) that there hasn't been much progress in military aircraft
since the days of the 104.

Here's the quote:

He claimed that the large aircraft
manufacturers aren't being very innovative today. As a test pilot at
Edwards he stated that some of the aircraft he tested in the past out
perform today's modern fighters. The F-104 was one of the examples. He
didn't have anything good to say about the JSF or the F-22 for that matter.
He stated that modern manufactures aren't the innovative risk takers of the
past thus holding back aircraft design technology.

Well, I think we've done a darn good job with regard to thrust/weight,
specific fuel consumption, lift/drag, sustainability of G, agility,
reliability, sensors, weapons, integration, security of comm,
survivability, ECM, defensive systems, etc. etc.

Either the aircraft industry has been remarkably progressive, or they
haven't. Can't have it both ways.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038