"Nele VII" wrote in message ...
Icarus wrote in message ...
Yes, a nice air show demonstration. Whats the COMBAT record of the Su-27
again?
That was a dogfight simulation between Su 27 and F-15...if those had been
real missiles and not a simulated ones F-15 would have ended up in flames.
Yet the F-15 has a 120-0 kill record, mostly against Soviet airplanes.
Hmmmm. . . .
FYI a Yugoslavian MiG 29 shot down one F-15...so much for unchallenged
record-nothing is perfect, it all depends on pilot...In 99% of cases,
Soviet
airplanes were never flown by Soviet/Russian pilots but by pilots who often
lacked proper training...Not even the Soviet instructors could make a
difference and get through to these pilots-as you probably know, Soviets
gave their planes to every country with similar regime-that doesn't mean
they were flown by proper people (and I won't even mention how poorly those
planes were taken care of)...Different cultures give different pilots-NATO
conducted research which showed that different countries had different
accident percentages-it had a lot to do with pilot skill...Norwegian pilots
are somewhat different than the US ones, same thing is for Russian/Chinese
etc...
Ikarus, nemoj da lupas! Ja sam bio aktivan na yu.forum.aeronautics godinama,
znam ljude, pratim avijaciju i nisam nikad cuo da je Yu 29-tka oborila F-15!
Ko je, pobogu, bio pilot? Kako to da niko pametan nije objavio na YFA?
Sorry to everybody, native language "rubbing" on the Yu MiG29/F-15 stuff.
FWIW, there has been-uncorfirmed-rumour-about four Ethyopian Su-27 and four
Erithreyan MiG-29 "clash", ending in three to zip (or was it 2-0?) victory
for Su-27s. Reportedly, pilots were Russian (Su-27) and Ukrainian (MiG-29)
instructors/mecenaries. Weapons used: R-27s (all missed), R-73.
Please, detail the difference for us.
Icarus won't provide one because there isn't any and that I wrote him in
our native language.
I'm sure you know how to use google, you'll probably find some mpeg's of
Somersault and other maneuvres yourself... If not, here is a good link to
start with:
http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAP.html
Yes, very interesting that the Soviets designed ejection seats that way -
almost as if they assumed from the beginning that their planes would get
shot down in droves.
I guess safety and human lives mean nothing to you...
Icarus, if you want to make a point then look Google yourself and you will
find that K-36DM WAS evaluated by US and it has been found that it is
absolutely superior to ACES-II. Also, there was some speculation about
possible licence-production. True or not, -We'll see that in the series
production F-22 ;-) .
I note it wasn't an F-15.
I see the F-15s shot down 3 MiG-25s. How many F-15s did the Mig-25s
shoot
down? Oh, whats that? ZERO, you say. Hmmmm . .
FYI-MiG 25 was primarily a Soviet version of SR 71, it isn't a
fighter...there were some versions that had been used as interceptors
however it was MiG 31 that was built for that specific role, not the MiG
25... I had chosen to compare MiG 25 and F-15 (and they actually can't be
compared-recon./fighter) only to show nothing is perfect and
invunerable...you somehow missed the point...Once again, my bet is on the
Su
27 family, not the MiG's.
Icarus, there have been -rumours- about MiG-25 victory over F-15
(Syria/Israel). But your stating that MiG-25 IS NOT a fighter plane is a
pure nonsense because:
-MiG-25 is a FIGHTER but is built in a recce version as well;
-shot down an F/-18 in Sesert Storm 1 (confirmed by US sources);
-Iraqis had ACES flying MiG-25 during Iran-Iraq war-moreover, it was an
"elite" unit (accorting to Tom Cooper), shooting down everything from F-5Es
, F-4Ds to F-14As (and vice-versa, of course).
Nemoj, co'ce, da se brukas...
Nele
NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA
Can't we just agree that you can't compare different fighters based
entirely on empirical data from individual engagements? As described,
we don't know what the comparitive pilot quality was, what the rules
of engagement were, or what combat conditions were for each side. I
just finished the Cooper Iran-Iraq book, and maybe reading it over the
course of a few months I missed the part about MiG-25's being flown by
aces (though I'm sure I would have remembered even a single F-14 being
credited to one of them; also, I do remember Cooper's description of a
Foxbat being shot down by an F-5). Also, don't confuse "elite" with
pilot expertise - we're talking about an air force largely under
direct control of Saddam Hussein (Cooper raises the issue of the lack
of autonomy for fighter pilots at least in the early phases of the
war). Being "elite" could very well have a lot to do with political
connections or simple political correctness.