what old clearance? You were told told to expect 8,000 on the ground.
Taking off is by definition acceptance of a clearance.


True. But I was expanding the point a bit. You're in the air, cleared at 5000
feet direct to Podunk. Freezing level is 6000 feet. Bigtown approach gives
you a new clearance - 8000 feet and ten miles over the ocean. You reject that
clearance, and still have your old clearance. Ultimately ATC needs to work
this out with you and with other aircraft. You are under no obligation to
accept the new clearance.

You're on the ground, and they offer you a clearance into the ice. You refuse,
you don't go anywhere. You're not in the air yet. You accept it hoping to
negotiate in the air. They won't play ball. You DON'T have an "old clearance"
you can fly - you already accepted the clearance into the ice. If ATC refuses
to play ball because they "need" you somewhere, the laws of physics eventually
take over.

Yes, there will be consequences, and they won't be pretty.

They were two different scenarios, but both involved choosing to refuse (or
not) a clearance.

Jose

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