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On Jul 1, 7:24 am, "John Carrier" wrote:
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On Jun 30, 1:54 pm, "John Carrier" wrote:
"Schlomo Lipchitz" wrote in message

...

Whevever I see a TV show about the F-4, all the AF guys do is bitch
about the early models not having a gun. Just how many kills (if
any)
have the F-14, F-15, F-16, and F-18 had with guns???

On the Navy side, Zero for the F-14 and F-18. I don't think the USAF
F-15/16 drivers have ever gotten a gun kill either, it's possible the
Israelis have. With modern missile systems, you generally have to
drive
through the missile envelope to get to guns, so it makes little sense
to
pass up the opportunity and expose yourself more than necessary. A
gun
kill
in a post-Vietnam world would also often require entering a
hard-maneuvering
engagement that is generally an unhealthy place to be.

An interesting note. Most Vietnam gun kills were scored by the F-105,
perhaps the least maneuverable aircraft in wide service there.

No Crusader gun kills?

The question was about the modern aircraft.

Hey, you brought up the 105s.....22.5 gun kills? I just figured the
Crusaders had gotten a few because they were the last "gunfighters".

For the F-8, if I counted
correctly, 4 with the gun only, 3 more sidewinder + gun. And one with no
ordnance expended ;-).

The old "He's on my tail....eject!" or just flew into the ground
trying to evade?


Frank Bachman and Jerry Tucker (VF-24 IIRC, Hancock) got a vector in second
half of '72. The Crusader community was quite frustrated by this time
because only the F-4's were getting vectors, let alone getting tally-ho's.
Canopy flash at about 5 NM, started a conversion with a Mig-17 and visually
ID'd the bandit with a bit more than 90 to go. Prior to rolling out in
envelope, the guy ejected. They thought it'd be pretty cool, one Mig kill
shared, no ordnance expended. Ship was given credit for the kill.

No telling what was going on with the Mig driver. Perhaps under training on
his first FAM solo. A mainenance check flight gone bad. Maybe a cripple
just trying to limp home. Allegedly, the Vietnamese transmitted something
akin to "Oh !*&!!", they're F-8's" and then punched. Good sea story
regardless, and like many somewhat improbable and colorful in the community,
true.

R / John