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Old November 4th 03, 04:16 PM
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Greg Esres wrote:

find a distinction where none exists the proper application of these
procedures might make more sense to you :-/

The distinction that I have described is made by others who have
considerable air traffic experience, both in the field and at a higher
level.

I posted elsewhere a comment from an active controller, and I'll post
a portion of it again he

---------------------snip-------------------------
...if you don't hear radar contact first, then any assigned heading
prior to those words does not constitute a vector. A radar vector is
course guidance predicated on radar. Simply by launching from the
surface on a assigned heading must not be construed as a radar vector.

We assign an initial heading to fly from all our towered fields, and
that is all they are, until you hear radar contact and then receive a
subsequent heading. Then and only then is a radar vector in play.
...
---------------------snip-------------------------

So your accusation that our difference of opinion is due to your
knowledge and my lack of it is in error. If there is at least one
controller that stated what I quoted, there are likely many more. And
I think that what he expressed is more in accordance with the .65 and
other noted authorities than what you posted.

Wally Roberts stated in one of his articles that
---------------------snip-------------------------
The controller is permitted to assign a departure heading without it
being for purposes of a vector, or even for a vector where radar
contact won't be established for greater than the typical distance
from the departure runway...It's clear its appplication isn't clearly
understood by anyone, neither controllers nor pilots.
---------------------snip-------------------------

The point behind that quote is that even if YOU intend your heading to
be a vector, not every controller will, and therefore the pilot can't
depend on the fact that he's being provided terrain clearance.


He was probably talking about a non-tower airport in Glass G airspace.
Alas, most pilots don't know the difference. Thus, from a pilot
prespective, it is best for self presevation to aks whether a heading
assignment is for radar vectors, unless it is a flat-land airport and the
pilot knows the "fleck" from having operated there a lot.