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Old December 15th 16, 11:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Lilium: the world's first 250mph, 300 mile range, electric vertical take off and landing jet

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 18:39:55 -0000, wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:32:00 +0100, Gerhard Strangar wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:

Lilium GmbH, Friedrichshafener Strasse 1, 82205 Gilching, Germany

Now it all makes sense, that's right at the end of a (unsually inactive)
runway. That runway was used by the Dornier GmbH (now part of the Airbus
group), which tested the VTOL cargo plane Do 31. They built prototypes
and then cancelled the program when it no longer met the NATO
requirements. Looks like a second attempt.

Interesting. I recall seeing a small runway next to a full sized runway in one
of the videos on their web site.

Their latest )Dec 2016) video is he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqnTYKYMwM . Jim will get a kick out of the
use of the term 'jet' used in this promotional piece. Apparently they have
designed a new electric motor that resembles a turbine, shown in the video.


There is a cat that hangs out in my back yard that resembles a cow. Does
that make it a cow?


What is your definition of a jet?


An internal combustion airbreathing engine that produces thrust via
exhaust gases, like most people.

Was the Nazi V1 powered by a jet engine?


A ramjet, a subset of jet engines.

snip

Of course, there's always the possible issue of language (mis)translation...


When the speaker is speaking English?



The video starts off with two claims: they will eliminate cars and
infrastructure.

As for the first claim, it is just too ridiculous to bother further comment.


Granted the elimination of automobiles is a fanciful notion in Los Angeles, but
in Europe, perhaps not so much.


More so in Europe.

Land is at a premium in most of Europe and this thing takes about 3 times
the area of a car to park plus a much wider taxi way to get from the
heliport to the parking area.


As for the second claim, a large, clear flat area IS infrastructure and
would be new infrastructure.


It's difficult to argue against your opinion. However, a flat spot need not
have lighting, radio aids to navigation, paving, structures, etc, so it could
be very minimal infrastructure compared to an FAA certified airport or
heliport.


First, do you really think the FAA or any other aviation governing
agency in the world is going to allow these things to land and take off
just anywhere?

Look around you as you drive around; how many places would have the land
required to provide a heliport, taxi ways, and parking areas for these
things even it were just dirt?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the Lilium marketing puffery, and am
indeed skeptical of the performance claims. Given the information below, the
most difficult claim for me to swallow, is a 435 HP FAA certified Light Sport
Aircraft. Perhaps there is a European class to which the Lilium may reasonably
be expected to conform, or such a revolutionary design may warrant creation of
an entirely class. After all, regulations shouldn't stifle innovation, but
provide safe and orderly rules so it may flourish.


There is already a class of aircraft that covers the Lilium; it is the
same class as the Osprey.

You are overlooking the fact that it is a retractable and supposedly
goes 190 mph and both take it out of the Light Sport class.

At any rate, the Lilium project has generated significant venture capital, but
until a full-sized aircraft flies, and empirically substantiates the claimed
performance figures, the Lilium just another Molleresque vaporware dream,
IMNSHO. But where would technology be without its dreamers who's visionary
pursuits have led to radical improvements in the human condition?


I would feel better that the thing had a snowball's chance in Hell of
success if the press releases weren't full of outright falsehoods, arm
waving, and wild ass speculation.

snip

FAA SPORT PILOT RULE


snip

Max. Speed in Level Flight (VH): 138 mph / 120 knots CAS


Fails here.

Engines / Motors: One (max. if powered.)


Fails here.

snip

Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders)


Fails here.

snip remainder of irrelevant stuff


--
Jim Pennino