Dudley,
Great tips! Thanks loads. I like the idea of the synchro radio calls and
the table.

With power and g, we've kept everything pretty much one g so far and we both
recognize we're a long way from pulling any. As for power, when leading, we
each throttle back to give us about 120 mph. My plane is faster than Al's
(better prop) so he needs a lot more power margin when he's on my wing than
I do on his. 120 mph (against a cruise of 145 and full speed of 180) seems
a bit slow but is fast enough to still have good control response and plenty
of surplus power. It gives me about 2100 RPM against a 2700 red line, 2400
cruise.

For positioning, we've been maintaining about what you describe; something
that feels like 45 degrees but is probably a little bit more, and nearly
level. When I'm looking at him, I try to bisect his upper wing through it's
own trailing edge. That puts me a couple of inches higher but reduces the
risk of masking with my own upper wing. (If anyone has anything to add to
that, please let me know). It's also good because it's exact and very
apparent when you're just a little bit above or below. Also rate of
vertical relative movement is very evident. As for horizontal keeping, I
haven't yet figured out the sight picture that I need. I'm trying to use
the technique you describe (lock a point on my plane onto his), but I've
gotten conflicting advice on best position and haven't been able to stay in
one place long enough to get a point; it's more like a zone. At the moment,
as long as his airplane is within the upper triangle of my wires, that's
about as good as I can get and it seems to be about the right angle.

We're keeping it relatively short, too. Five minutes of keeping on
someone's wing is bloody hard work! I have to remind my self to relax. How
soon before I stop leaning forward in the cockpit? :-)

Anyway, will be off the net after tomorrow for a couple of weeks but plan to
fly again in mid-Feb. I'll let you know how I get on with the book and our
next sortie.

Cheers for the help!

Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
. net...
I never did formation acro in the Pitts, but I talked about it many times
with Art Scholl. I have however flown formation acro in both similar and
dissimilar aircraft using P51's and a P51/F8F pair.
Art considered formation acro in the Pitts as a common problem for all
bipes, that being a high potential for loss of sight in close.
It's dicey in tight, and that's basically where you want to be for acro,
as
the lag time between lead and wing can be a real killer.
There's no substitute for working in as a team when it comes to this
issue,
and if you're taking it in slowly together; that's the way to do it.
Right off the bat I'll tell you several things. Radio communication is
PARAMOUNT. The instant you lose it, you need a preplanned exit. The
Thunderbirds have a "go exploded" preplan on call by the lead; or a wing
if
lead is the cause; also if no transmission from lead for a briefed time
period during a maneuver. Radio is CRITICAL to flight safety in formation
acro.
On position; the best unfortunately for acro is in fairly tight, as there
can be absolutely NO lag between lead's stick and wings'. If you are
waiting
for lead to move, it's too late. ANY lag will throw you outside. Another
thing. Normal echelon acro in a low wing fighter would normally be back
about 55 degrees stepped down, and in position where the tail numbers
could
be read easily. This is very similar to the old fighting wing. The Pitts
will have to be held in flatter due to the upper wing panel. You'll have
to
experiment with this.
I would suggest you fly ALL maneuvers that involve roll (turn) AWAY from
the
wing; in other words (turn away rather than turn into the wing) Turns into
involve some power and positioning problems that could get hairy in a
Pitts.
On positioning; I've found the Thunderbird/Blue Angels approach to this
issue to be the best. They develop what is called a "paint" for each
maneuver. It naturally varies between wings and slot, but in your case,
you
only have a wing "paint" to develop. What you do is establish a sight line
from your normal seated position from some spot on your airplane (I used
my
canopy bow a lot for this)
directly to some chosen spot on the lead's airplane, and you KEEP IT IN
THAT
EXACT POSITION come hell or high water.
This means that in effect, if you're flying the wing position, you are
literally flying the lead's airplane. When he moves, you move. You keep
the
line between the paint and the spot on your airplane at all times. This is
called relative positioning. This also requires lead giving wing a
specific
cadence on the radio that NEVER CHANGES on both the preparation call for
the
maneuver, AND the execution call. For example; lead will call "
Ready.......going barrel roll left............now........" What's
indicative
here is the SPACING between the words "left" and "now". By knowing the
spacing, wing can execute WITH the lead and not after lead's hands and
feet
have moved. This is critical for acro formation integrity.
I could go on for an hour on this stuff but you'll discover it on your own
I'm sure.
Just remember; lead's job is SMOOTHNESS and GROUND PROXIMITY . Lead has to
leave wing with a little extra g and a little extra power. This also is
critical.
If lead maxes his airplane, wing doesn't have what he needs to hang in
there. Lead MUST give wing enough extra to maintain position.
Oh well, you'll get it I'm sure. If there's anything at all I can help you
with, don't hesitate to ask.

One thing Shawn; I'm fairly certain that you'll find that in the Pitts,
you
are going to be flying a flatter echelon and a bit wider out than I would
be
doing with a low wing fighter. This will mean an even tighter execution
window between wing and lead. The radio procedure you two develop between
you that establishes the cadence I'm talking about will be VERY important
to
you with a wing out that far and being flat like that. Work on these radio
calls till they are so second nature you both could be blindfolded; make a
prep, hesitate and execute call and bang your hands down on a table at
exactly the same time together. When you two can do that twenty times with
no difference in sound when your hands hit the table; you're ready to
BEGIN
practicing formation acro as a demonstration team!
Dudley
"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
You bet, Dudley, on both counts.

To date all we've really done is trade lead and wing, mostly echelon
right,
practicing straight and level station-keeping, gentle turns left/right,
gentle climbs and decents. It's still hard enough keeping in some kind
of
reasonable position that anything more challenging is still for the
future.
We still fall out of turns once in a while, as you'd imagine.

Just out of curiousity, do you have any formation time in Pitts
Specials?
If so, what do you use as visual references in echelon to keep your
position? We've gotten some conflicting advice about the best position.

Shawn
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Best of luck down there and have a great time. Hope all goes well with
what
you're planning for 05.
One thing though Shawn; don't get too close to those Cape Buffs down
there.
I understand that if they get mad at you for some reason or other,
they
can
take do great harm to a Pitts!!! :-))
Have fun and let me know how you make out with your show will you?
All the best as always,
Dudley


"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the heads up on this one, Dudley.

Oddly enough, am going on vacation to Capetown on Sat for two weeks.
Have
asked about two copies being sent to my hotel, one for me, one for
my
flying
partner. We're just starting out on some basic station keeping
formation
and hope to be able to put together a small show routine for Summer
05
or
so. Lots of work and lots to learn in the meantime, but we've had a
blast
doing what little we've done so far.

Shawn
Pitts S-1D G-BKVP
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news
"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
thlink.net...
For those of you interested in air shows, both military and
civilian,
,
and
whose interest goes WAY beyond the norm and into the very guts
of
the
subject; I'd like to announce that the consummate book on this
subject
"Zero
Error Margin; Airshow Display Flying Analyzed " has just been
released
and
is now available. ...

Wow, this is saying a lot, coming from you. Is it anything the
'lay pilot' could appreciate, or do you think one has to be
an aerobatic pilot or an airshow performer to appreciate it?

Cheers,
Sydney

The book will probably end up being the finest piece ever done on
this
subject. In fact, considering it's scope, it should stand alone
now
as
unique. It will easily qualify as legally acceptable reference
material
when
expert opinion has to be verified concerning the issues dealt with
in
the
book.
I will have the finished book in my hands next week. As of now, I
only
have
the material that I've been working on with Col Barker over the
past
two
years, and individual chapters sent to me to be proofed, but from
what
I've
seen so far, for anyone having any interest at all in the safety
issues
that
surround the air show venue, this book will be a must have! The
collected
group gathered together to do this work are in my opinion, the
best
available in the world today. Just in my own small group
contributing,
the
book involved several Thunderbird alumni, including an ex team
lead.
I really can't say what the interest will be for the average
private
pilot
as it relates to flying. Naturally, the collective professional
talent
gathered to do this project concentrated heavily on the low level
aerobatic
demonstration aspect of handling an airplane; and many makes and
types
used
for this purpose are covered in textbook form. But if there's an
interest
in
learning how extremely high performance airplanes are handled
professionally
by people who are the best in the world at doing this; I would say
there's
a
lot that can be learned and applied to making everyday flying
safer.
On the historical end, the accident data base on air shows
included
in
the
book is second to none. It lists every major air show related
accident
of
consequence over several decades. Researchers will have a field
day
reading
what the official reports said, then being privy to what the best
pilots
in
the world involved with the same kind of flying had to say for the
book
that
ADD's to those reports.
For the enthusiast, the book should be a gold mine of first hand
reporting
and research on their subject of interest.
To answer your question honestly Snow, it all depends on the
interest
area
of the hypothetical "lay pilot" you describe. My recommendation
would
be
to
purchase this book if you have any interest at all in airshows, or
how
high
performance airplanes are flown by people who know high
performance
airplanes. You'll get a real inside look at how these pilots think
and
act
under all kinds of conditions. I would say that by the time he/she
finishes
reading this book, the average "lay pilot" should come away with
at
least
a
few things they might want to change in the way they approach what
they
do
in the air :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt