On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:42:56 GMT, Jerry Springer wrote:


The header came through a newsgroup in england so I would suspect that
is the source. It seems to have only taken 60 years for most of these
countries to forget how we helped keep their asses out of the fire
during WWll

Well... Remember that we weren't so eager to join in. Depending upon how one
establishes it, WWII either started in 1937 (Japanese invasion of China), 1938
(German annexation of Czechoslovakia), 1939 (German invasion of Poland, British
and French declarations of war), July 1941 (German invasion of Russia) or
December 1941 (Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor).

Note that even after Pearl Harbor, we tried to not get involved in Europe. We
didn't immediately declare war on German. We declared war on Japan only. We
didn't go to war (officially...I'm not forgetting the Reuben James) with Germany
and Italy until they subsequently declared war on us a few days later. We
liberated France and the low countries as a byproduct of defeating Germany, not
as a reason for going to war.

But we don't have to argue that point. The question is, how long after "keeping
their asses out of the fire" are they morally required to defer to the United
States? At what point is the obligation discharged? Fifty years? A hundred
years?

Remember, there wouldn't have been a United States without France. They armed
us, trained our armies, committed thousands of troops, and used their navy to
keep the British from reinforcing, supplying, or evacuating Cornwallis' army at
Yorktown.

And how did we repay France?

1790-1797: Most of the European monarchies form armies to crush the new French
Republic. United States support to France: None (other than US merchants
getting rich selling grain to all countries involved)

1798-1801: Quasi-War with France. American ships seek out French ships
(sometimes in cooperation with local British naval units) and take, burn, sink,
and destroy. Note that we're at *war* with the country that "saved our asses"
less than 20 years after Yorktown.

1803-1814: Second phase of Napoleonic wars. US support to France: None.
Wellington's troops in Portugal and Spain fed by US grain imports. US picks up
Louisiana Purchase at "Fire Sale" prices because Napoleon needs the money and
expects to lose the territories to the British anyway.

1812-1814: US at war with Great Britain, at the same time the French are. US
troops committed to defend France: None. Joint naval operation with the French
navy: None. The French allow American privateers to use their ports. US grain
ships continue to supply Wellington.

1815: Napoleon escapes from Elba, war starts anew. US support: Zero. (A
point of irony: British saved by appearance of Prussian (e.g., German) troops
at Waterloo. Little thanks they got, too.)

1854: France at war with Russia. US support: Zero.

1860: France at war with China. US support: Zero.

1870: France invaded by Prussia. US support: Zero. Post-war actions:

So...is the lack of French gratitude any more immoral than our own?

Ron "a little more gas on the fire" Wanttaja