On 15 Apr 2004 18:03:36 -0700, (Bravo8500) wrote:

I'm pretty sure this question has been asked, but I can't seem to find
it. My question deals with a typical approach with a procedure turn
before the FAF, could be an NDB, VOR, GPS, etc. I know what the
purposes are. 1) Provide course reversal and 2) allow altitude loss
from the arrival altitude to the procedure turn altitude. My question
is, am I expected to make the turn it if I'm already established on
the inbound course and am already at the correct altitude.

I don't think the AIM is very clear.

I have found in dealing with these kinds of questions that reference to a
specific approach and a specific situation leads to a clearer understanding
of the issues.

This question has been discussed a number of times but the answer to your
specific question is "it depends". The reason the answer is vague is
because you have not given enough information in your generic type
question.

One important item that you left out, in trying to come up with your
example, is the manner in which you became "established on the inbound
course" and "at the correct altitude".

There are a number of ways that can happen that would preclude you from
executing a charted procedure turn. There are ways you can get to that
point only by (you or ATC) violating some other regulation or procedure,
making the question essentially irrelevant. Then there are some procedures
that are improperly charted.

So, in general, if you've arrived at the FAF on course and on altitude, you
should have arrived there either via a NoPT routing or via radar vectors to
final. So in those instances you may NOT execute a procedure turn without
permission from ATC.

But if you are not on radar VTF, and not arriving via a NoPT route, (and
not doing timed approaches), then you will need to execute the procedure
turn.

I suppose I would have to ask the controller.

So far as asking the controller, they will probably "let you do" most
anything you request, so long as it does not violate the regulations and
procedures under which *they* operate. But be aware that if what you do is
not in accord with the expectations of the approach designer, you may be
cutting your safety margin to unacceptable levels.

Do you have a specific situation and approach about which you are
concerned?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)