"S Green" wrote

"All we can do is take out a few of the biggest offenders."

You mean we take out those where we can steal their oil or other assets and
leave the worst offenders who would crush us if we tried it in their
country.

What dumb comments! We import 80% of all our oil from Saudi Arabia.
Iraq is not producing squat. It is not even a drop in the bucket.
The war is costing us hundreds of Billions. There are no "assets"
worth that much that we could have stolen. We invaded Iraq because
they were menacing and disruptive to the region. Now if their tyranny
had spread out of Iraq into the real oilfields then our economy would
be jeopardized.


One rule for Iraq, another for China. Iraq with no WMD, China full of them
and both with human rights abuses.

Apples and Oranges. I've been going to mainland China since 87'.
It's clear to me you've never been there. They are one of the U.S.'s
biggest trading partners. We get along fine with them as long as they
stay away from Taiwan. Since you obviously don't read the papers you
wouldn't know that we parked two aircraft carriers in the Formosa
Straight to prevent them from abusing the people of Formosa. China is
massively over populated. Years ago the Chinese gov issued a law that
all female babies must be killed. If they hadn't done that massive
famine would surely have followed. As it is now they have over 2
billion people in poverty over there right now. Human rights concepts
have been seeded by the British in Hong Kong and western style
business is succeeding in Scezen and Shanghai and other places. It's
slow but they are making progress, where old Sadamizer in Baghdad was
regressing. So we clobbered him again because he was asking for it.
Suddenly Libya got real friendly. Can you figure out why Momar Kadafi
has renounced terrorism Mr.Green?


The fact is China would whip the ass of the US if it tried to do anything.
You guys are so one eyed

Naw, we use both eyes. You see, even you'd be pushing up daisies
where you live after a full China/US thermonuclear exchange. Ever
hear of Nuclear Winter? I have a suggestion for you Green: Try going
to college instead of just parroting headlines. You'll learn a lot
more.

pacplyer - out






in message ...
"pacplyer" wrote in message
om...
(Alex) wrote in message
. com...
(pacplyer) wrote in message
. com...
Alex, is one sick puppy. Just because he finds someone's ramblings
searching google doesn't make it true.

Ok, so you say Kissinger and Nixon had nothing to do with
southamerican dictatorships and their crimes. Ok, I can accept your
disagreement. I have no proof myself, I am only saying what I found,
and I do believe it because it is consistently mentioned throughout a
lot of very different sources. But it could be false, of course, like
anything else.

I never said either way. But giving support to people in charge to
influence their behaviors is something that happens when you are
Secretary of State. My government frequently has to deal with
unsavory characters who wield power in a particular region. I'm just
pointing out that it seems like to me you are oversimplifying
everything. When you walk into a pig sty and have to deal with a
pig, you're going to get dirty. Your other choice is Isolationism.
Stay home and tell yourself that the murders are not happening and
that you won't find any mass graves if you go down there.


His poison pen diatribes are
really deluded. All he can say is: the U.S. is bad bad bad bad bad.
The U.S., you moron, is nearly 300 million people. Ninety-Nine
percent who have nothing to do with the frequently up to 100
wars/conflicts being waged around the world. These struggles would
occur with or without our involvement. All nations have problems with
operatives in the field. Don't blame us because human life is worth
nothing below Texas.

Firtly, I never blamed all of US population. I blamed the succesive US
governments for their foreign policy. I'm blaming politicians, not
farmers or salesmen! The sub-human military we got in southamerica are
our own. That we did to ourselves. I never said otherwise. I only said
the US backed it up and helped.

I don't think you'll reach many politicians on this website. Where do
you live Alex? in Latin America? Are you a German immigrant?


Kissinger was trying to stabilize the situation.
Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. The fallacy of
Alex's
assertion that domestic U.S. standards must exist outside the U.S. is
very very naive.

Now you're saying Kissinger *did* have something to do with
southamerican dictatorships and their crimes. Okey...

So, Pacplayer, you are making exactly my point! US foreign policy is
not guided by domestic standards, but hey, it was Rob who said it was,
not me!

Rob is right. So is Doug. The U.S. objective is always to stabilize
the region so commerce can flourish and standards of living can come
up. The disagreement arises for me when we ask: whose standards of
living come up? Corporate CEO's or the people?

I am trying to tell him and Doug that they are deluded if they
believe the US acts acording to law, human rights, etc, in their
foreign policy.

Contrary to what law? International law? Local law? Religious law?
Martial law? Again, this old saw about the U.S. breaking laws is a
play on words. War is legal. If you can't rid your own country of
despots, and your countryman's cries reach the U.S. media.look out!
Our do-gooders will get everybody upset and before you know it, the
U.S. intel or war machine may start on the way down to clean up these
perceived injustices. And odds a they're going to screw it up big
time. And guys like you are going to bitch and moan about how unfair
we are. Well I'm tired of your sad sad song. You want to convince
people here of U.S. oppression, post pictures of people being tossed
out of C-130's by U.S troops and then I'll believe it. Until you do,
I say it's bull****, and that you are one impressionable young man for
only believing one side of the argument. I try to keep an open mind.
I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I believe U.S.
corporate CEO's are morally bankrupt, and cause most of these hard
feelings by abusing int'l labor and trashing the third world for
profit. These assholes are the guys that prop up dictators with cushy
oil/drug/lumber kickbacks and then economically enslave the local
workers. After a number of years of this the workers get fed up.
They join guerrilla movements and start shooting up villages. Police
are called out. The national Military gets involved. The CEO's
convince the president/dictator/despot to call Washington and ask for
assistance.

Citizens like me are going to try to vote out Bush and other
incombants this November to pay for this misbehavior. But can the
U.S. gov just decree that the whole world must obey human rights? No!
All we can do is take out a few of the biggest offenders. And during
that process there's going to be some heartbreak. People are going to
get killed. Human rights are going to be violated. Half of the
strongmen we support are going to stab us in the back later. That is
the nature of intervention.