On 9/10/2011 1:04 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I saw your previous statement, Eric. And maybe I misunderstood what
you said.

I assume you said that you've mistakenly taken off with spoilers
unlocked. That's an oversight that I'm not railing about. Answer me
this: Assuming the spoilers sucked open sometime after liftoff, did
you recognize it and close them, or did you fly blissfully along
wondering why it was suddenly so noisy and your climb rate had
diminished, not to mention the sudden drop causing your head to bang
the canopy?

In one cases, I did tow along blissfully for a while, but it wasn't
noisy, my climb rate did not diminish, and there wasn't any sudden drop.
It would be great if those things happened, but they don't happen on an
ASW 20 B when the spoilers slowly extend under tow. At some point, I
realized I was flying at a higher than usual AOA for the speed I was
being towed at. That perception was delayed because I was at a contest,
flying with water, behind a fast, powerful towplane (twice the climb
rate of the one in our club), and so was not familiar with the correct
attitude.

In the other case, they opened about 10' off the ground, a few seconds
after liftoff. There was no extra noise, there was no reduction in climb
rate, but I did notice a drop (but not sudden) that I first attributed
to a sinking air or wind shear, but after "a few seconds" (5? 10?) I
realized something was wrong, checked the spoilers - oops - and closed
them. Again, being towed by a powerful tow plane.

At high speeds, spoilers will act like you wrote (sudden opening, noisy,
big drop), but at tow speeds, they can open so gently it's not
immediately evident. My guess: this is probably what happens a lot of
times when the spoiler suck open during the tow, and why the pilot
doesn't recognize it immediately, and sometimes not at all.

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
On 9/10/2011 12:19 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
Why must we continue to try to make everything safe for everyone?
Some people should just NOT be flying aircraft. Or riding
motorcycles, or driving cars. I think we'd all be better served
if these folks were told to stop flying. But then we'd have to
ask: "Who certified them as safe and competent in the first
place?"

Sorry if I sound harsh, but there are too many incompetent people
in the world, the result of putting their self esteem above their
safety. If they can't do it, why not just tell them so?

Sometimes we do, but it's not an easy task determining who is
incompetent, or if currently incompetent, will become competent. In
a recent post, you wrote:

If your spoilers "suck open" and you don't recognize it, you
shouldn't be flying.

Perhaps you missed my earlier response to that statement, but the
basic idea was: I know many competent pilots, including myself,
that have had this happen to them.

As many have pointed out, accidents are happening to pilots that
appear competent and are certainly experienced. It's not just the
obvious bozo that's having accidents.

-- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
to email me)



--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl