On 23 Mar 2006 06:38:39 -0800, "gregscheetah"
wrote:

Hello,

I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.
Previous all my maneuvering in the clouds has been during real
approaches close to the ground. All of my IFR flying is single pilot.
I have had a few cases when alone I have had to make the procedure turn
reversal and descend at the same time and I was definitely
uncomfortable with the smoothness of the descending turn. I would

Work on the scan until your are comfortable with it. This kind of
maneuver I'd do with a safety pilot until you can nail the turns and
altitude.

focus on bank angle and descent rate and I would pass through the
bearing, or I would allow the bank rate to go beyond standard rate.
Nothing significant, 10 degrees on bearing and maybe 10 deg on bank
angle, no loss of control or serious deviations. Everything would work

About a month (give or take) before I took my check ride my instructor
took me out for over two hours of nothing but partial panel with only
one radio and no DME. We did *timed* climbing and descending turns to
predetermined altitudes and headings. He'd give me a heading of say
090 at 3000 and once stabilized it was "climbing left turn to 180 at
4000. I had to calculate the time to climb and then figure the rate
of turn. (or conversely the time to turn and then rate of climb). I
was expected to hit the heading and altitude at the same time.
Of course to make it interesting he sometimes would have me intercept
an radial inbound, out bound, or just a heading. Things like descend
and intercept the 300 degree radial inbound on a 30 degree angle at
3000. Of course we might intercept from the left one time and the
right the next.

And no, I didn't get to use a calculator.:-))

Naturally it was one of those warm days with thermals and about a 15
knot, 90 degree cross wind.

OF course the NDB holding pattern that started at 7000 with descents
of 500 or 1000 feet per circuit down to the approach at 2400, followed
by the published approach, followed by the published missed, then back
up to 3000, intercept the VOR-A into 3BS outbound, procedure turn, 3
or 4 circuits of the holding pattern still partial panel and one nav
radio.

At the end of that I was pretty well rung out, but I had no more
problems with climbing or descending turns.



out OK, but I was not comfortable and it was not acceptable performance
for me. I have since limited maneuvers in IMC to either turning, or
descending, but not both. This works well, but I know that sometime I

You'll get used to them with practice.

will get to do both again. Most of my approaches are either VOR or
NDB. ILS approaches are a piece of cake.
I can do it perfectly (well, acceptable and without error) under the
hood. I just finished a 3 hour run with a CFII under the hood and
everything was perfect. There is something different about maneuvering
in the clouds.

Only attitude. I find it easier in the clouds with the exception of
small cumulus where you end up with flicker. Typically *most* rides
are smoother in the clouds than they were under the hood and in
sunshine. There were a couple of notable and memorable exceptions.

I know I could get a CFII in actual conditions with close to min
ceilings, and practice maneuvers during the approach, but that doesn't
sound smart to me. I don't care how good the CFII is, loss of control
in IMC at 800 feet above the ground is going to be ugly. I want to
practice with a bunch of air below me.

Certainly you want to get so you can do the maneuvers well before
getting down to minimums, but it sounds to me like you are too
concerned. By that I do not mean don't be concerned. Get proficient
and *comfortable*. My instructor had me flying full, published
approaches with procedure turns and holds right down to minimums in
IMC to the point where my first flight on my own after getting the
rating was right down to minimums with much of the area below
minimums. Had I had to go missed on the VOR I'd have gone over to MBS
for the ILS. Barring that I had enough gas to get me back to
reasonably good weather with VFR conditions under the clouds. The
point is, I was comfortable under those conditions. To me that flight
was no different than any of the training flights down to minimums.
OTOH I readily admit that I am not currently proficient enough to do
that kind of flying.

Of course I fly perfectly with the AP enabled

If you have a good AP most of your IMC flying will be with it on, just
don't become dependent on it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Thanks,
Greg