On Wednesday, 5 October 2016 09:21:03 UTC-6, Sean wrote:
For anyone interested in reading the FAI RULES for themselves, here is a link: http://www.fai.org/downloads/igc/SC3A_2016a


The FAI rules are relatively simple and straightforward. They are also used happily, safely and effectively by the vast majority of soaring countries (all but the USA and Canada) at the regional, national and, of course, the international level at the PAGC, WGC, SGP, etc.



This document is for World and Continental FAI contests. Do you have any links for individual countries and what they use? I am not familiar with any local rules other than what is used within the US.

FAI rule competitions use Naviteer's "SeeYou" for scoring. SeeYou is, of course, a popular and successful commercial product which will be supported for years to come. This is very important. There is a great economy of scale in joining the FAI for this reason (scoring) alone. Winscore is very complex to maintain.


Sean I agree that the SSA should get out of the software business. SeeYou will not support the current SSA rules but could come close.

Please note that SeeYou requires the use of "scripts" and they have to be maintained, should be minimal, but none the less SeeYou competition is not as simple as plug and play. I am sure you saw this at the Chillhowee event.

The FAI rules are worth a look. There are many other documents which are interesting reading as well. Imagine that if we simply adopted FAI rules, we would not need to spend so much effort on our own custom, isolationist US rules. In fact, we would need almost zero annual effort.

Let us keep open minds and not allow the US rules "cult" to scare you into thinking that FAI rules are "evil." This is a favorite pastime of theirs.. I, for one (and there are many others), contend that we would be FAR better off being on the same general rules system as the rest of the soaring competition world. Again, the rest of the world uses FAI rules happily, safely and enjoyably. They also use a common ranking list: http://igcrankings..fai.org ... and a common basic website for competition scheduling, marketing, scoring, promotion, etc. That website is www.soaringspot.com.



As 711 pointed out if the SSA was to bite off the FAI way of doing things then everyone has to confirm to their rules and procedures. And yes everyone would have to get a Sporting license, a waste of money in my mind.

The www.soaringspot.com is maintained and owned by Naviter and like above if you commit to it you ave to commit to their processes, rules and priorities. The folks from Naviter were very helpful and flexible during the worlds in Uvalde but they had to make a custom version of SeeYou competition for Uvalde to support the Local Procedures. Not sure if any of the changes survived.

From a event coordinator and scorers point of view the complete picture has to be addressed; event signup, competitor data being passed to the scoring programs to eliminate administration issues, score sheets, task sheets, grid sheets, posting of scores and even the rankings that John L does. Most of these steps are done by and automated with WINSCORE.

Sure they could be duplicated but time and effort will be required. Again I would like to understand how other countries handle their local and regional competitions.

Shouldn't we at least be considering FAI? Again why is this blasphemy? Why is this subject never included within our US RULES opinion poll?

What measurable value does the continuation of US rules provide?

What effort would be saved, short term and long, by simply adopting FAI (and putting US rules out to pasture)?

I think that it is a highly sensible conversation for our US soaring community to have.

Is this topic still "blasphemous" or will a possible switch BACK to FAI rules be carefully considered as a reasonable idea?

Please consider reading about the FAI rules for yourself. Don't simply take the word of our so-called experts like the one above. Understand how the FAI rules use Local Procedures (LPs). LPs are a critical FAI rule document (similar to a US rules pilot kit) written by host club organizers (and the CD) to define key local procedures such as the start, finish and associated things in the context of the specific airport that the competition is being held. The LPs allow flexibility for club leaders and CDs to make things safe, comprehensive and comfortable for all competitors.


Let's not confuse documentation with implementation. Parts of the scoring parameters are hard coded in SeeYou competition but could be changed with the 'scripts' but watch out for the slippery slope.
I'm going to set up a monthly conference call / webex (all invited) to start an ongoing conversation on FAI rules and get US (and Candian) pilots familiar with FAI rules and the differences with US rules. I'm going to bring on guest speakers from other countries to answer questions and talk about key topics. These sessions will, of course, be archived on YouTube for future viewing. PM me if you would like information on how to join this conference series.

Sean

I will try to participate, to learn, and offer my experience. I have scored SSA regional and national competitions sing WINSCORE and the Open Class at the worlds in Uvalde in 2012 using SeeYou Competition.

BTW major procedural changes have been made to SeeYou competition in the last couple of years, just an example of how organizers need to stay on top of the changes and make sure they can find folks to handle the tasks.

One other area that should be explored is the training and of more CD's and Scorers. There are only a handful of each left.