"Michael" wrote in message
om...
"Chip Jones" wrote
Maybe this controller is the product of the Clinton-era "Train to Succeed"

Oh, dont get me started on that piece of crapola program. I always called
it "Train to Suck". And now they wonder why all these operational
errors are popping up, often with these people.

Try asking for an IFR climb
while providing own obstacle clearance sometime.

What? Be more specific- I see this done correctly every day.

My guess of what he may mean here is this ridiculous
request for a, and I quote, "VMC Climb" that so many, mostly
Air Shuttle (Mesa), pilots keep asking for. What they want is a
VFR climb for terrain, but not provide their own separation from
traffic. They have been told repeatedly on freq about it, they have
been made to call in about it, and their ops have been called about
it to knock it off. You want to provide your own terrain separation,
great, you want a VFR climb, great. But there's no such clearance
as a "VMC Climb" clearance. I ignore it, and just say "climb
VFR to and maintain 17,000". If they say, or I ask if they can
provide their own terrain and obstacle clearance, it doesn't have
to be restated in the clearance, like "cleared to soandso as filed,
provide your own terrain and obstruction clearance and climb
and..." no way jose.

One last point on this IFR climb while providing own terrain
clearance, this guy (Mesa again) didnt like it that I wouldnt
give him approval to do just that the other day. The problem was
he wanted an IFR clearance and provide terrain separation but
wanted an altitude 1,000' BELOW my MIA, and the terrain only
got higher the further he went. He wouldnt accept an OTP
clearance, and sure wouldnt go VFR, and unless someone can
find it somewhere, we cant assign an altitude like that in this
situation. I know our MIA's are not readily accesible to pilots,
but he was also below the MEA of a nearby airway, and even
lower than the transition from the VOR to the ILS he was overflying.
Out here in the land of 14'rs, we get it all the time from above
about assigning an altitude below our MIA's, as someone will go
NORDO, go into an area of higher MIA's, and smack. Sometimes
the MIA's are higher than MEA's, sometimes lower.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in.
Chris