This is incorrect. And yes it's been claimed before on r.a.s. and folks like me have spent time correcting that misinformation. Did you bother to read any of that past stuff before posting yet again the same wrong, confused, information?

Yes, I did.


Who exactly from the FAA told you this? What is their role/position/department? Got a phone number? I'll be happy to contact them and correct their confusion, or point other FAA employees at them to do the same.


I spoke to Doug Belcher from the Spokane FSDO (800-341-2623).


Did you actually try to carefully read 14 CFR 91.225?

Yes, I did.


The only good news that I got is that the FAA is actively looking at low-cost, low-power GPS sources for the GPS part of ADS-B out.

Well the real good news is you are wrong. But what you are talking about now is TSO-C199/TABS devices that have been posted about on r.a.s a lot. If you are going to sleep through the movie you are going to miss a lot...

The good news is you can get your info straight from the FAA: http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/20...20briefing.pdf



Flying in the high desert West will effectively be grounded w/o ADS-B out compliance after 1/1/2020.

Bull****, no it won't, not currently. If gliders lose their current ADS-B Out exemption this may become an issue. If we do lose that exemption I hope we will gain the ability to use TABS devices to meet both transponder and ADS-B Out requirements. I and others have posted on r.a.s. about TSO-C199 since shortly after the TSO was published, you can search r.a.s. for those posts.

I suggest that you take that up with the FAA, not me. After all, the FAA has the ONLY vote that counts!


I already have a Mode-S ES (extended squitter) transponder (Trig TT-21), but have struggled to find a suitable certified GPS. Yes, there are units out there, but there size would choke an elephant! Typically, they are 5.5" x 6.5" x 2.3" (give or take half an inch). I don't know about the rest of you, but fitting a monster like that into my panel just ain't happening.

As discussed elsewhere in this thread, your TT-21 cannot be used to meet ADS-B Out 2020 carriage mandate requirements (which gliders are currently exempt from).

The size of a complaint (e.g. TSO-C145c or equivalent) GPS is really not the issue. Why would you fit it "in your panel"? That GPS box and antenna could be installed in many locations in a typical glider. The significant issue is likely cost and maybe power consumption.


I think you mean "compliant GPS". Where and how I mount my equipment in my glider is up to me and my A&P, but having smaller certified units would make life MUCH easier.

And asking for advice about GPS units for a certain ADS-B Out system, and thinking you have much choice, may be a waste of time, certainly for certified gliders.

It certainly has been to this point.

Does anybody know of a smaller solution?

The solution is to stop worrying about thing that are not issues, and certainly to stop posting all this misinformation on r.a.s, and just wait and see what happens with glider carriage exemptions and with TABS/TSO-C199 regulations and devices.

I agree with you that 91.225, as written, exempts gliders from ADS-B out compliance. I am going to get a clarification from the FAA on this.

Tom