I'm not sure I buy that argument. Of course the regulation doesn't help
because it is not precise. The logging of instrument time make the distinction very
clear for "acting" PIC and "logging" PIC. FAR 61.65d1 says:

(d) Aeronautical experience. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have
logged the following:
(1) At least 50 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot in command, of which at
least 10 hours must be in airplanes for an instrumentairplane rating; and

There is no separate column in my logbook for time I acted as PIC (assumed to
be the same as your definition of "being PIC", "top-dog", "head-honcho", "the-big
fazootti", etc), vs. time that I logged PIC. In other words, the act of acting PIC
isn't logged... I'm sure this can be argued ad-nauseum both ways, but it just ****es
me off that the regulation-perverse FAA is so flippin' vaugue about the important
stuff.

I say if you're driving the plane that you're rated for (and can thus log PIC
time), it counts. Even in the spirit of the notion of logging time.... if it's
acceptable to log PIC time under the hood in VMC solely because you're driving, you're
still driving if it's clouds out.

Here we go.....

-Cory

Teacherjh
wrote:
:
: This means that an instrument training XC trip, which is NOT on an
: instrument flight plan (you don't have an instrument rating yet so you can't
: file IFR as PIC) but is under the hood with an instructor as safety pilot,
: can be logged as PIC XC.......so you can make the same time do double duty.
:

: Well, sort of. You need to make this arrangement beforehand, because LOGGING
: PIC time and BEING PIC are two different animals, kind of like dolphin (the
: kind you eat) and dolphin (as in Flipper) are two different animals.

: You can =log= PIC time as a non-instrument-rated private pilot, even under an
: IFR flight plan that your instructor files, even though the instructor must
: =be= PIC(*). However, you can =not= use this time as the time required under
: 61.65(d)(1). Though it's in your logbook as PIC (sole manipulator, or "Hands On
: Time"), you were not PIC (Top Dog) on that flight. I know you didn't claim
: this to be true; I state it for completeness.

: You can also log PIC time if you are flying under VFR, under the hood, with the
: instructor also acting as safety pilot, irrespective of who =is= PIC. This is
: the case I believe you were referring to, and yes, if you and your instructor
: agree that =you= (the student) are to be Top Dog on that flight, then the time
: counts towards the time required under 61.65(d)(1). It might be the case that
: you need to do this (for example, if the instructor's medical has lapsed, I
: believe she can still give you required instruction, she just can't be Top Dog,
: though this would require another current pilot in the back to act as safety
: pilot, which is a required crewmember under the circumstances, which brings us
: back to the pathological case referred to earlier). On the other hand, it is
: also possible that the (current) instructor elects to act as Top Dog (and =be=
: PIC), in which case though you could log HOT time (PIC time) you could not use
: it as the time required under 61.65(d)(1). It might even be necessary (for
: example, if your own medical has lapsed, though I think that in that case you
: might not be able to log the time at all; 61.23 does not list "receiving flight
: instruction" as an exception)

: So, yes, you can make the time do double duty, but you need to read the regs
: carefully. Remember, HOT time doesn't make you Top Dog, and being Top Dog
: doesn't make you HOT.

: Jose
: ==
: (*) OK, there are pathological cases where a third person sitting in the back
: could BE PIC, for now let's not go there.. oh, never mind, we already did.

: --
: (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************