wrote:
Bruce Greef wrote:

I have been involved in discussions at a couple of clubs looking at the
inevitable replacement of wood and fabric trainers.

There are many, often polarised views on subjects like:
Whether we should ever plan on replacing the K13
Whether Scheibe Bergfalkes are worth keeping.
The "XYZ" trainer is a bit of a pig to fly, but it IS paid for and will probably
last another 10 years so why worry.
Will we be able to get anything for them if we want to sell them in five years.
Whether there is anything available that has the necessary characteristics:
Low airframe weight - we have to winch launch this.
Reasonable performance.
Good control harmonisation for training.
Robust enough for rough airfields and winch launching.

So then we start thinking of what can we replace it with:

Whether a Grob G103 is any use as a trainer - it is so heavy, and the older
versions have far from perfect control responses.
Whether the K21 is the best option - again too heavy, and too expensive.
Whether the PW6 is the answer - again, a bit heavy and a bit expensive new, and
too new to be available second hand at reasonable prices.
Whether the TST-14 might not be a bad idea - it is certainly dimensionally
correct, and the weight and price looks good. So am I too cynical wondering
about the catch...
The DG500s look great except for that empty weight - that would not work on a
short winch runway.
Whether all metal aircraft like the L23 and Peregrine should even be considered,
given that we have no metal maintenance skills available.
The Scheibe SF34 / Alliance 34 looks on paper about right, but there are few
complimentary comments about them . Why is this design unpopular.


General opinion appears to be that:
The Scheibes are already worthless - you can only get their instruments value.
(They are advertised at 2500 Euro)
The K13s are starting to go the same way as maintenance climbs and age starts to
creep up.(look at the number on offer - and the prices)
Metal is not practical.
Composite seems to be going inexorably in the "more" direction
More span, weight and cost than we can reasonably invest in.

So we have a dilemma -

We have to find something that we can afford, that is
1] good for training.
2] does not break winch cables the whole time.
3] is possible to make a financial case for in clubs that have 15-20 active members.
4] Has good enough ground handling (wingspan, total weight and general balance)
that it does not become a hangar queen.

Maybe it is not possible, and I know I have left a number of fine aircraft out
of both sides of the argument. Fact is we will need to replace at least three
trainers in the next five years, and there are no obvious candidates.

Any thoughts on what we should do here? Other than start saving...


Import a bunch of 2-33s from the US. Cheap, easy to groundhandle, hard
to break, easy to fix (steel tube/fabric/sheetmetal).

In fact, take all of them, please!

66

Hey Kirk

We have just the replacements for your 2-33s. I happen to have an inside track
on some pristine Bergfalkes. The younger one only has 11,000 hours on her...

also 66 (Std Cirrus)