What we really need is an updated higher performance
GRP version of the K13, with its easy ground handling,
one piece side hinged canopy for good visibility from
the cockpit, and safe handling and spinning characteristics.
Does such a beast exist? No of course it doesn't!

Derek Copeland

P.S. You can keep your 2-33's.

At 13:24 16 June 2006, wrote:

Bruce Greef wrote:
I have been involved in discussions at a couple of
clubs looking at the
inevitable replacement of wood and fabric trainers.

There are many, often polarised views on subjects
like:
Whether we should ever plan on replacing the K13
Whether Scheibe Bergfalkes are worth keeping.
The 'XYZ' trainer is a bit of a pig to fly, but it
IS paid for and will probably
last another 10 years so why worry.
Will we be able to get anything for them if we want
to sell them in five years.
Whether there is anything available that has the necessary
characteristics:
Low airframe weight - we have to winch launch this.
Reasonable performance.
Good control harmonisation for training.
Robust enough for rough airfields and winch launching.

So then we start thinking of what can we replace it
with:

Whether a Grob G103 is any use as a trainer - it is
so heavy, and the older
versions have far from perfect control responses.
Whether the K21 is the best option - again too heavy,
and too expensive.
Whether the PW6 is the answer - again, a bit heavy
and a bit expensive new, and
too new to be available second hand at reasonable
prices.
Whether the TST-14 might not be a bad idea - it is
certainly dimensionally
correct, and the weight and price looks good. So am
I too cynical wondering
about the catch...
The DG500s look great except for that empty weight
- that would not work on a
short winch runway.
Whether all metal aircraft like the L23 and Peregrine
should even be considered,
given that we have no metal maintenance skills available.
The Scheibe SF34 / Alliance 34 looks on paper about
right, but there are few
complimentary comments about them . Why is this design
unpopular.


General opinion appears to be that:
The Scheibes are already worthless - you can only
get their instruments value.
(They are advertised at The K13s are starting to
go the same way as maintenance climbs and age starts
to
creep up.(look at the number on offer - and the prices)
Metal is not practical.
Composite seems to be going inexorably in the 'more'
direction
More span, weight and cost than we can reasonably
invest in.

So we have a dilemma -

We have to find something that we can afford, that
is
1] good for training.
2] does not break winch cables the whole time.
3] is possible to make a financial case for in clubs
that have 15-20 active members.
4] Has good enough ground handling (wingspan, total
weight and general balance)
that it does not become a hangar queen.

Maybe it is not possible, and I know I have left a
number of fine aircraft out
of both sides of the argument. Fact is we will need
to replace at least three
trainers in the next five years, and there are no
obvious candidates.

Any thoughts on what we should do here? Other than
start saving...

Import a bunch of 2-33s from the US. Cheap, easy to
groundhandle, hard
to break, easy to fix (steel tube/fabric/sheetmetal).

In fact, take all of them, please!

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