On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:43:14 +0100, Bill Gribble
wrote:

Lennie the Lurker writes
You are confusing what I have to pay for my fixed expenses with what I
have left for "fun money". I was spending about $200 to $300 per
flyable weekend at the glider port, plus $300 per month for the
payments on the plane, and no partners in it. But, lets say, $3600 per
year for payments, $900 for insurance, $35 per month for tiedown, $40
for a 3k tow, and an income of $1500 per month, on which I am now
completely comfortable.

Perhaps our objectives are different. Perhaps geography plays a part.
But I'd say you were paying too much. Certainly far to much for what you
evidently got out of it.


Bill,
The way things work in the USA are a lot different from the UK. Many
(most?) clubs don't instruct there - you learn at the local FBO, which
is a commercial operation and will charge around $50 per hour for
glider hire, $40 per hour of instructor time and typically $10 - $12
per thousand feet on tow. Winching is rare across the pond. Mind you,
the clubs, where they exist are pretty reasonable (when I visited
Avenal they wanted $20 per tow and $5 for each glider flight, but in
an older, lower performance club fleet (Schweitzer 2-33, Blanik L-13,
Schweitzer 1-26). Club membership seemed more or less in line with the
UK norm.

Finally, most club and FBO fleets are two seat only, so once you're
solo you really have to stump up for a glider to continue. Gliding
there costs a lot more than it does here.

Looked at in his context, Lennie's costs look to be pretty much in
line with the US norm.

For my part, I'm learning to fly as a member of a local club. I use the
club gliders and the club instructors, all of which come within the
price of my annual membership (£220 pa). Because I took their "Fixed
price to solo" offer (£470 incl annual membership) I don't have to pay
another thing until I either go solo or I need to renew my annual
membership (another £220 next year).

My local club is a bit more expensive than yours, but we have a big
airfield, an all-glass fleet and some nice club single seaters to
support. I too did the fixed price to solo. Its good encouragement to
go fly on a less than optimal day. For the last three years I've been
flying club single seaters as part of a similar scheme (buy a block of
reduced cost air time with associated glider booking rights). For a
variety of reasons I'm planning buy my own glider this winter.

Of course, were I to own my own glider, perhaps the costs would be
higher. Don't know. Haven't bothered to work that out yet. Owning my own
glider, as attractive an ambition as that might be, isn't really
appropriate at the moment.

Agreed. You'll know when its time. As you start to go cross country
you'll find your air time per year rises a lot and the cost of using
club gliders follows. I did about 25 hours total in the season it took
me to solo, but flew about double that in my first solo year, 70 hours
last year and 90 this year.

A very rough calculation indicates that, at somewhere between 70-100
hours flown per year, owning your own glider becomes cheaper than
flying club gliders. This assumes that the private glider is older
glass and includes insurance, running costs and interest on capital
but not depreciation. It also assumes no major repairs or damage. By
older glass I mean something between a Standard Cirrus or Libelle and
an ASW-20. I've used current UK glider prices and interest rates and
my club's booking scheme hire costs.

Of course, if the glider is syndicated between two or three pilots
then the cost per pilot drops, but the glider probably doesn't fly
many more hours during the year.

As an aside to the rest of you, what did I miss here?

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :