"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

GW Bush is Presient. I do not care to defend any of the three.

2) AFAIK, Clinton has denied nothing you alleged above.

3) I am not convinced that Bush was AWOL, it appears that at worse
he was left without orders to appear anywhere in particular for
about a year. Certainly a far cry from volunteering for combat
duty however.


In fact he was apparently in the national guard reserve at the time
and this was the period after he had volunteered and been
turned down for active service.

Huh? I never heard anyone claim that GWB volunteered for active duty.

The following was extracted from http://www.greaterthings.com

"At this point in the Vietnam War, the US Air Force desperately needed
additional F-102 pilots to fly the dangerous reconnaissance missions so
important to the fate of American troops on the ground. With only a small
amount
of solo flying experience, Bush applied for a voluntary three month
Vietnam
tour, perhaps counting on preferential treatment once again to overcome
his lack
of readiness, or perhaps safe in the knowledge that his request would
certainly
be rejected."

What utter crap. So the F-102 was flying, "... the dangerous reconnaissance
missions so important to the fate of American troops on the ground"? That
statement alone opens the entire quote to scrutiny in terms of veracity,
since F-102's were NOT performing reconnaissance missions "important to the
fate of American troops on the ground".


Parenthetically, during his interview by Tim Russert on Meet the Press,
Feb.8,
2004, Bush denied ever volunteering for service in Viet Nam. How sad that
he
couldn't remember doing it; I still have my 201 file dating back to WWII,
which
contains stuff like copies of volunteer statements, special orders, etc.
I'm
amazed that somebody as highly organized as he is somehow apparently
misplaced
his.

Uhmm...that is not exactly the way it was reported. Russert asked if he
"didn't volunteer or enlist to go" to Vietnam; in other words, did he join
the military with the sole intent of going to Vietnam. There were an awful
lot of folks who volunteered for military service during that time and took
what assignment they were given; my old high school history teacher ended up
serving as an MP in Germany, is he somehow guilty of "dishonorable" service?
Bush (and others) have verified that he did indeed volunteer for Palace
Alert duty. Place Alert was a program that could have taken him to any
number of duty stations, including Vietnam.

Russert: But you didn't volunteer or enlist to go.
President Bush: No, I didn't. You're right. I served. I flew fighters and
enjoyed it, and we provided a service to our country. In those days we had
what was called "Air Defense Command," and it was part of the air defense
command system.


Also, in the US the National Guard and the Reserves are different
outfits, though in the last 15 years or so the National Guard have
been called to active duty more than any time since WWII I think.

During the Vietnam War, National Guard troops stayed in the US
and were only activated for natural disasters and riot control.

I believe there were some National Guard troops who served in VN. Cong.
Gephardt (D-Mo), for one, was in the Missouri ANG and served in VN.

Given the aircraft he trained
on was being phased out and the war was winding down I
kind of doubt he was the only one who did less than the
optimum with regard to service.

That may be true, but he undoubtedly was the only President who lied about
it.

How has he lied about it? Sounds like another George Z. fabrication is
brewing...

AIR, Clinton had applied for entrance to the ROTC and, when the Selective
Service System initiated the use of lotteries to determine which
registrants
would be called for service, and Clinton drew a high number (#311), he
withdrew
his application for entrance to the ROTC.

How convenient for you to forget the part about him seeking entrance into
ROTC using political pull (something you are oh-so-quick to claim in the
case of Bush and the ANG), and his later letter to the ROTC PMS:

"First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft...I am
writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to
understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves
still loving their country but loathing the military..."

He subjected himself to the draft

By his own admission he did NOT do that. In addition to admitting that COL
Holmes had "saved him from the draft", he went on to say:

"At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D
deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self-regard and
self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by
eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on
September 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my
draft board saying basically what is in the last paragraph, thanking him for
trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn
't do the R.O.T.C. after all and would he please draft me as soon as
possible." I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day
until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter
because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe going
to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished
myself and gotten what I deserved."

process, which never got around to calling him.

Because he had used the ROTC PMS to step around his availability,
immediately discarding ROTC when it became apparent he was not going to in
fact be drafted. Note that he did not send that letter to COL Holmes until
*after* he was assured he was safe from the draft.

Many other Americans did the
exact same thing, and it did not involve telling lies, merely taking
advantage
of the system that had been set up to provide equity in selection.

Sounds like Clinton did indeed lie, repeatedly. He lied to COL Holmes when
he said he really was interested in the ROTC, and later admitted he had not
been interested in it for any reason other than avoiding the draft and
getting that coveted deferrment statement from the good colonel. And, even
worse, he either lied when he admitted to "loathing" the military, or later
when he miraculously claimed to admire all of those fine young people who
served--which was it?



My guess is that he was such a crappy pilot his commander in TX
was glad to see him quit flying befor he screwed his aircraft
into the ground.

But the documents posted online indicate that his commander in TX
gave him verbal permission to transfer to an AL unit in advance
of written orders. After that transfer was officially denied,
it appears no one ordered him back to duty in TX. And no one
noticed for about 14 months at which time GWB asked for an
early discharge. Which he got.

Maybe he did some duty somewhere during that time but if so,
no one seems to know what or where.

His duty performance has been scrutinized by very critical media
opponents--none have been able to deny he completed his service obligation
and was honorably discharged. That you can't seem to accept that, while
excusing every mealy-mouthed lie and dodge perpetrated by your hero Clinton
in his active and deceitful avoidance of *any* kind of military service is
hardly surprising given your demonstrated bias to date.

Brooks