On Oct 3, 9:49 am, Gordon wrote:
On Oct 2, 7:06 am, Eunometic wrote:

Essential:
Hurricane; had to be avialable in numbers for battle of britain
Spitfire; had to provide quality fighter throughout the war an
amenable to all rolls.

Series numbers need to be included in your listing, as some marks of
each of these aircraft made far more of an impact than others. Eric
Brown told us that "by FAR [his emphasis], the Spitfire XIV was the
most outstanding British fighter of the war."

I believe Galland made the comment that the best thing about
the Mk XIV was that there were so few of them. I think about
860 produced for servive and perhaps jut over half that number in use
at one time. Most had clipped wings since it was feared that stresses
were to great.

The Mk XIV was an interim type: till the Mk XVIII introduced a tapered
stainless steel spar for extra strenght while the parrallel Mk 20
received a completely new wing of much stiffer structure to reduce
aeroeleasticity and thereby increase roll rate.




For "best fighter of
the war", he left absolutely no doubt, stating that "...with the Me
262, it was apparent after a few flights that we were... years behind
in fighter development." He felt it was a superb fighter with good
range for the day, a remarkably heavy armament, and few vices.

Mosquito; night bomber, night fighter, fast day bomber and most
importanty reconaisance aircraft par excellance.

I think the amount of damage it did as an Intruder and marking targets
for Main Force heavies cannot be underestimated either.

Lancaster; easy to fly, devastating war load.
Wellington: Britains Medium bomber and an important coastal command
aircraft.

Strange to see the Wimpy in here but we simply must include something
from Mr. Wallis.

He 111: early bombing workhorse

Redundant, I think, if you are including the Ju on your list, as it
was clearly superior in all regards.

Do 217 Only 1200 produced but still effective as a night bomber and
guided missile carrier.

very few successes in this role. As a night bomber, it was
inefficient and could not survive most attacks. I think the Ju 88 was
"Essential", and the Do was not.

Might Have
Me 210/410 Quite a good aircraft that was to replace the Ju 88 and
Me 110. Fast, advanced armament, bomb bay, efficient etc but simply
too late due to programm mismanagment to survive in allied skies.

Strongly disagree. I have known Me 210 / 410 pilots and they thought
the 210 was "ghastly" "horrible to fly", and the 410 was "too complex;
filled with gadgets" although the Gruppe commander of the
Schnellbombers said he really thought the glass panel between the feet
was an excellent idea. I don't know what role the 210/410s filled
that other aircraft could not have done better.

Complexity was the way to go; the remote control guns needed even more
complexity; computers to calculate lead I think. However I note that
LeMay insisted that his escorts fly ahead of the B-29 to prevent head
on an side attacks. The computers dealt well with tail attacks only.




He 219; succombed to political problems; an excellent night fighter
and unlike the Me 110 and early Ju 88 it had the speed to chase down
British bombers once diversionary raids and feints had been
ascertained.

I think it was essential, just stupidly ignored.

He 177: engine problems were not tackled agressively. The B series
with 4 seperate engines could have made up the bulk of production and
provided the Luftwaffe with a reliable long range bomber of
exceptional performance
had courage preceded arse covering.

By the time it matured into an effective bomber, its bases were under
Allied-controlled skies, making good use impossible. Germany needed a
heavy bomber in 1940-41; by 1944, they were just targets for roving
Allied fighters.

Perhaps some use against convoys where the Fw 200 was inadquete and
against the Soviet unions ural factories.



USA:

Essential:

P-40 USAAF effective fighter of excellent quality; it was quite
effective with appropriate tactics.

What a lot of people don't fully realize is that this aircraft was
just about all we had for the first two years of the war, and it
remained in service long after it was made obsolete by others. Until
the unready P-38s and the thirsty P-47Cs came along, P-40s were just
about it!

Clive Caldwell showed it could be deadly against the Me 109.


P-38 Had the range and performance to protect US bombers. It
prevented the German Airforce from fielding heavy aircraft firing
rockets, or impunely attacking bombers under the protection of heavy
armour.

Hmmmmm... It seems in my memory that the rocket-firing German
fighters were mostly treated roughly by P-47s and the gunners aboard
the heavy bombers.

B-17 Hightly survivable high altitude bomber.
B-24 Longer ranged then the B-17; its only virtue.

Greater warload as well. I think these were both essential.

B-25 Versatile and easy to fly in all theatres of war.
Wildcat, Hellcat, dauntless, avenger

Not sure if we actually "needed" the Avenger. The IJN was primarily
bombed out of existance, not torpedoed out of existance (not counting
the tremendous job done by the Silent Service, of course).

P-47 Ready far earlier than the P-51.

Non Essential
B-26 not as versatile as the B-25 and for a medium bomber too
demanding of runway conditions.

But faster, which is important if you are in amongst enemy fighters.

I think the versions with the extended span, the b-26G was no faster.
What if a PW2800 was placed aboard the B-25 instead of the CW2600.


Helldiver: too many handling problems.

Blew. Only "replacement aircraft" that I know of that was taken out
of service and "replaced" by the aircraft it was supposed to replace.
Crews called it "the Beast", and I have to date never met anyone that
liked it in any way.

Yet it eventually sank the Yamato using vertical 90 degree dives



P-51; the P-38 had sufficient range to cover untill the P-47M with a
wett wing which actually
could excede the range of the P-51.

Cost and battlefield effectiveness - P-38s would have had a very
difficult time against airfield defenses and in other roles where the
51 excelled. Primarily, the P-51 beat everyone else in its fielded
numbers; what is better, five squadrons of P-38s or 25 squadrons of
Mustangs, with a much higher sortie rate and far lower price tag?

Vought corsair: took to long to perfect for carrier opperations;

A Navy Captain told me, "That _____-___ ____ of ____ wasn't worth the
trouble - we were forced to take it by politicians." He was a loyal
Grumman customer and saw no need whatever for the F4U.

Hellcat did a good enough job.

You have a talent for understatement.

Had the Ki 84 been available in
numbers and supplied with 100/130 octane fuel the corsair would have
been essential

naaaaa.

Ki 84 did 430 mph when run on US f100/130 fuel.



Japan:

Essential:

Mitsubishi A6M zero and Betty.
Dinah, Ki 84

Non essential
All army types apart from the dinah and Ki 84

Soviet Union

Essential

Illushian Sturmovik, Pekelatov Pe2, Tupolev Tu 4, I-16

The last LaGG and the Yak 9 absolutely should be on your list.

v/r
Gordon