wrote in :

Vaughn wrote:
On 5/9/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:

If you burn hydrogen in an engine, you get lots of NOX byproducts,
i.e. smog, because air is mostly nitrogen and hydrogen has a very high
flame temperature.

Fuel cells do not have that problem as the temperatured involved are
much lower.



Yes, but my point was that you are still left with the problem of the
pollution and greenhouse gas generated by the production of your
"clean" hydrogen fuel.

Besides, for at least the last 30 years, mass consumer fuel cells have
been "just around the corner". Even if they suddenly became practical
and economical, we would still be left with the huge problems involved
in producing and distributing hydrogen.

You can wave your arms and talk about fuel cells all day, but the
problems with hydrogen won't go away. Hydrogen is not an energy
source.
To make hydrogen, you make pollution.

And my point was if you BURN hydrogen, you make pollution.

You are BOTH right.

And a similar argument can be made for going all electric. How
do you make electricity? Right now, most of it is made by BURNING
hydrocarbons.

Moving to electric powered vehicles only shifts the location of
the burning from the vehicle to the electric power plant.

The only way to make electric vehicles viable from a 'pollution
elimination' point of view is to ALSO generate the electricity
from some other method than burning hydrocarbons.

As Vaughn pointed out, we have to find an alternate SOURCE of
energy, not an alternate medium by which to store it. Hydrocarbons
are a source of energy. We get more energy out of hydrocarbons
than we put in to extract it. We don't have to make it. Although
there is the argument about how much is left.

The problem is finding a viable alternate source of energy to
replace hydrocarbons. Ones that can produce energy on par with,
and for future growth eventually exceed the scale of what we get
out of hydrocarbons.

And then there's the whole problem of upgrading the power grid to
handle everyone plugging in their e-car's without the wires glowing.
The alternative to that may well be distributed energy generation.

Replacing hydrocarbons for transportation use is not a simple
or singular problem. At the risk of sounding cliche, it will
require a paradigm shift in the way energy is produced, distributed,
and consumed, and it will have to be adopted by everyone to make
it work.

Brian
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