"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:20:09 -0700, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
On 13 Apr 2004 11:48:15 -0700, (WaltBJ) wrote:

The 22 should have been in service test in 1990.
Walt BJ

While what you say is esssentially correct, the 1990 date is a bit
excessive. I left ATF at Northrop in mid-'88 and at that time
metal-bending was just commencing for FSD. The only real full-scale
mock-up was plywood. Gotta assume that F-22 wasn't that different than
-23.

There was no FSD, only Prototype and Production.

Dem-Val ended in Fall of '88 and FSD commenced leading to the
selection two years later. The program phases were pretty clearly
spelled out in the RFP and again in the selection contract. Asserting
"there was no FSD, only Prototype and Production" seems to be little
more than an opinion and not in consonance with the readily apparent
sequence of past events.

Unfortunately for your memory Ed, there was no FSD for the F-22; only
prototype and production. Although the F-22 has produced 17 different
airframes that would have been the FSD birds for any previous fighter, they
are under a production contract. Skipping the FSD phase was supposed to
save money, but all it did was drive an already out of control configuration
to even greater extremes. Fortunatel;y for the program, management was
sacked last year and the configuration was finally frozen.

Was probably pretty good that airframes were airborne in '90, but
avionics were still mostly conceptual. Will definitely agree that the
decade of the '90s really showed a slow-down in development.

I'll agree with Walt that the airplane needed to be delivered a decade
ago.

A few USAF F/A-18s should get the point across.

I don't understand your fascination with USAF F/A-18s. It is most
assuredly a non-stealthy airframe and one not dedicated or even very
well suited to the air dominance mission. IOW, it isn't an A/A fighter
by any stretch.

I was led to understand that the F/A-22 is the new mission.

If (and this is a very big IF), the F-22 should collapse, then a
better choice for all-wx, day/night ground attack is another buy of
F-15E and an update of sensor/weapons suite on F-15C with maybe a
modified F-16 update as well.

The F-15 is in Gephard's district and the USAF opertunity to have a Super
Eagle is past.

These would allow continuity of already
deployed systems with the supporting infrastructure--engines,
avionics, training, qualified weapons, simulators. etc. etc. Not a
single factor that I can think of would aim any decision maker toward
F/A-18 for USAF as a substitute for F-22 or F-35.

I believe the F/A-18E would provide an object lesson for the USAF fighter
mafia in how to comply with USAF reliability and acquisition changes. Once
that point is across somone might be able to explain to the USAF fighter
mafia how space based sensors are the future, as envisioned by USAF.

I will, however, agree with Walt (as I almost inevitably do) that had
the program remained on timeline and operational airframes been
delivered a decade ago, the unit cost would be lower, the avionics
would be more mature and the politics would be irrelevant.

Politics are the only thing keeping the raptor alive. (ie Georgia pork)