On Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 2:45:08 PM UTC-8, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, November 22, 2020 at 10:40:10 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 6:36:29 AM UTC+13, 2G wrote:


These guys were in violation of NZ's cloud separation rules from the get-go, and the instructor was curiously behind the curve during the whole flight. They are very lucky to have survived. The narrator touched on what equipment and training would be required for them to be legally where they were at any point in the video, and they had none of that (it was not made known if the instructor had the cloud flying training - if so he should not permitted the student to get them into that position).
No argument there.
This is confirmation of my position that gliders involved in ridge (in the close vicinity of clouds) or wave flight should have an artificial horizon and the pilot must be trained in its use. I have gotten trapped above the clouds on a wave flight and had to make a 7,000 ft descent thru the clouds w/o any instruments other than the basic ones and certainly no training in instrument flight. I did it by flying a constant compass heading at a constant speed, making minimal control movements. At the time, artificial horizons were large, power hungry devices and never used in gliders. Now, they are small (at least some of them) and energy efficient. The easiest way to get instrument training is in a conventional power plane, and the most realistic time to do it is a moonless or cloud covered night away from any city lights.
I've heard this view from a number of pilots. I disagree.

In the case in the video they where only just over 1,000ft clear of the top of the hill they were soaring. Are you suggesting they deliberately enter cloud that close to terrain? On a day windy enough to ridge soar?

Or are you suggesting that after they inadvertently enter cloud they fire up the instruments, change mental gear, and soar clear.

I'd suggest that the more realistic option is to know the conditions, always stay clear of the cloud, always have a clear escape route.

Your instrument flying skill learnt in smooth air several years ago and not kept current by regular refresh will be unlikely to save you in a high pressure situation where you must do the right thing right now in high winds and likely turbulence.

--
Phil Plane
(Only caught above cloud a few times and always amazed we don't see more serious cloud related accidents. Those gaps disappear quickly and cloud can be sneaky)
If they had followed the specified cloud clearance regs already in place the incident likely would not have occurred. But nobody's perfect and they do make mistakes and find themselves in situations that require this equipment and training (it happened to me). Clouds can form spontaneously, especially during wave flight, so you can be clear of clouds and, then, suddenly find yourself in the clouds. Flying with an artificial horizon is not particularly difficult: you just treat it like a real horizon. It is more of a mental exercise of knowing that your life depends upon that instrument and you must totally trust what it is telling you. How much recurrent training is required depends upon the individual. If you think you need annual refreshers, then by all means get it. The training I got was on a cloud-covered night away from city lights and with a hood for extra measure. The instructor put me into several upset attitudes from which I had to recover solely using instruments. That was one of the best flying lessons I ever had.

I would never recommend intentional cloud flying so close to the terrain, equipped and trained or not (other than in an emergency, which I once had and was glad I had the training to handle it).

Tom

The video has now been blocked from viewing.

Tom