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Old November 9th 03, 11:40 PM
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Likewise a pleasure to talk to someone who knows the subject well, first
hand no less

Cheers !

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
"Stolly" wrote:

And if you look at the markings it is indeed F for Freddie, as mentioned

the last clip I posted.

Yes indeed, I noticed that too, and yes it's true that the Lanc
was 'sort of' derived from the Manchester...matter of fact I
found a Lancaster with that row of small windows down it's 'port'
side (in Google), but couldn't find a pic of the stbd side. I do
know that 'ours' didn't have them on either side, mind you, this
was in the 'fifties'.

Sorry for not posting the things about the reunion by they way, i should
have but did not have time when i made the original post.

Not fault finding here, just a statement.

So on one hand we have the recording, the photograph and the 207 squadron
association all of which seem to add up and support each other.

On the other we have the lack of engine noise but without any proof that

BBC were in fact unable to deal with it, just a hunch.

If you still think its a fake then we'll have to agree to disagree, but
there is a weight of evidence to prove otherwise.

Well, I realize that it's not 'proof' at all, but I really
remember a lot about the Lanc Stolly, it was my first aircraft
(as a flight engineer) and it's quite remarkable how much I 'do'

Mind you, I don't remember what I had for breakfast today (or
whether!) but I clearly remember the exact fuel tank quantities
of all 8 tanks, the 'pretakeoff, posttakeoff, prelanding and
postlanding checklists (they were 'memory items', we had no
written checklists as now) and scads of other facts, one of which
was the amount of noise. Mind you, I was only 21 then too!...

In any event, it's been a pleasure to discuss something with
someone who feels strongly about something without someone
resorting to fisticuffs almost. Thanks for that sir.


"Stolly" wrote in message
As you correctly point out the Manchester did have that row of windows.

As i am sure you also know the Lanc is a very close relative of the
Manchester and early Lancasters were uncompleted Manchesters with new


So many early Lancasters started life as Manchesters and did indeed

windows. Since this is 1943 it is entirely correct that early

were still in service.

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
"Stolly" wrote:

It was recorded on a disk not tape.

If you are convinced it is not real then you are also convinced that

A. The picture of them stood outside the aircraft is faked.

Hardly now...why does it follow?..don't be silly sir...

Incidentally, although it certainly isn't any kind of proof but
our Lancs didn't have that row of small windows all down along
the stbd side of the a/c, but if you Google for the 'Manchester
Bomber' it does, exactly like these.

Are you sure that these two guys aren't standing beside a
Manchester?. There's not enough of the a/c showing for me to

B. They faked it in less than 12 hours since it was broadcast later

same day.

And that sounds impossible for the BBC?? I said, don't be
silly sir...

C The BBC and Imperial War Museum, to this day, are in on the

D. 207 Squadron Association are also in on the conspiracy since the

renunion in 1983 and invited the BBC reporter there as reported

here . They got

years later for the express purpose of remembering the recording and
broadcasting of this recording. Are you REALLY suggesting that they

together 40 years later to remember something that never happened ?

Seriously you are ignoring all the above in favour of not believing

BBC knew how to filter noise. They were a world class broadcasting
You would certainly imagine they had sound engineers that knew what

were doing.

I have the whole 40 minute recording from the IWM sound archive. I

20 for it. Are you saying that I should report the Imperial War

commiting fraud in that they are knowingly selling faked recordings

perhaps a museum with a international reputation has been duped
and that you know better based on a hunch that the engines are not

enough ?

I know that this looks bad for me...but I find it very difficult
to believe that the announcer is sitting in a Lanc as he talks
about "...moving down the runway and just now we lift off and
climb away..." etc. If you ever actually sat in a Lancaster
during takeoff you'd know...the noise is deafeningly


The Canadian government pays me a 35% hearing disability pension
for listening to that deafening sound (for about 575 hours)
along with the exposure that I suffered on other less loud a/c

You have to take some of the responsibility for this too Stolly,
you made the barefaced claim that it was authentic with no cite
at all. This time you supplied a cite but didn't point out any
connection to this recording in that article. I searched all
through your article and found this somewhere in there (I believe
it was in 'A brief history')

The famous BBC recording of a raid on Berlin, commentary by
Wynford Vaughan-Thomas, was made on 3rd September 1943
with Flt Lt Ken Letford's crew in EM-F for Freddie.

So there you I think that it's authentic?...well, I have
no doubt that it was made during the war, and probably for PR
reasons so it certainly has value (had?) I think that it
used the talents of the flight crew?...sure.

Do I believe that there's some conspiricy?...nah.

Do I think that it was RECORDED IN FLIGHT on a
LANCASTER?...sorry, I just cannot believe that.

As talented as the BBC techs might have been, the 'white noise'
of four Merlins at full bellow is fearsome to behold yet there's
almost no evidence of it here (I can occasionally hear what might
be some faint engine sounds 'way in the background).

The announcer sounds relatively calm and is speaking relatively
quietly, certainly not the case if he were actually shouting to
be heard above the unholy racket of 4 Merlins. It's human nature
to shout when you cannot hear...notice hearing impaired people,
they speak loudly because they can't hear themselves very well.