(Corrie) wrote
In Eastern science (which of course is based on eastern philosophy)
there is an important concept called "polar complimentary opposites."
It's derived from the concept of yin/yang - two things that at first
glance appear to be diametrically opposed. If one is true, the other
cannot be. But when one steps back to the proper perspective, it is
revealed that BOTH are in fact true, and the sum of them becomes a
single whole truth that is greater than the sum of the parts.

That's it. You've come around. No need to argue the diliniation
between natural selection and artifical selection. Nature does not
recognize these clasifications. The mechanisms of DNA "unzippering"
are the same in both the breeders cage and in the wild. From a
perspective of shear molecular function, there is no difference.
Evolution of the blood line occurs the same in both (mutations create
diversity. The degree of that morphing is different only from our
perspective as huge life forms.) Classification, true/false
characterizations are human contrivances. If the truth were known,
there is no difference between the sciences of Chemistry and Physics.
They are the same thing. We just tend to break things down into tidy
true/false packages so that we can get our mind around the basic
concepts. I believe the Bible is one of the most acurate records of
human history we have. But there's no reason to let those accounts
morph into Greek Mythology. Most myths have their basis in fact. The
great flood certainly seemed like it soaked the whole known world to
the men of the time. Indeed it appears the Black Sea covers massive
settlements and matches exactly the account in the Bible. Does this
make the account false? No. To the men of the time, it was the best
info they had.


In western thought this is called a paradox. There are some inherent
paradoxes in religion and in science. They are sometimes erroneously
called contradictions. There's an important difference. With a
contradiction, both A and B cannot possibly be true. With a paradox,
it seems that both A and B cannot both be true, but it is
demonstratable that in fact both A and B ARE true.

The classic Christian paradox is man's accountability and God's
soveriegnty. How can God hold us accountable for our actions when He
is ultimately in control of everything? It seems like a logical
impossibility, but it is in fact a paradox. Both-and, not either-or.
(The 'proof' for our purposes that both are true is Scripture. From
Genesis to Revelation both God's sovereignty and humankind's
accountabiltiy are inseparably interwoven.)
)
Well back to the definition of God. When I spit a lugie on the
sidewalk, before it hits, its entirely possible, since it is a group
of life forms (cells) that quark life forms have reached consciencness
mid-way to the ground, are looking out into their universe and
wondering if a supreme being, a god cares about them (that would be
me.) Yes I care that I don't get caught by a cop doing this; I know
that those cells are my children that are part of my grand design (to
clear my throat) but I don't desire to let them in on the big picture,
cuz I'm outa here.

A classic scientific paradox is the wave/particle nature of light.
Light behaves as a wave. It also behaves as a particle. Both are
demonstrably true.


I agree with Eric that everything in this universe, no matter how
complex, can be distilled down to simple physics, chemistry, etc;
elementary elements with complex relationships that if we had enough
time and money, could be described and demistified.

Since that statement is unproven and unprovable, you are a
materialist. I believe (again in the inevitable absence of proof)
that there exist things in and beyond this universe that we not only
do not comprehend, but that we cannot comprehend. We both have faith,
albeit in different things.

Got news for you, fellow lugie rider: We're floating halfway to the
sidewalk in a universe (the lugie)that is part of God's (the larger
universe's) big plan. We shouldn't assume our world is very important
from God's perspective. Who are you to judge God? Maybe he is a
materialist. Your own faith says you can't rule this out.


So what is love, death, faith, etc.
I believe these are complex chemical reactions within your brain that
give you your being; your soul; your conscience. This beleif, while
sophisticated, does not contradict the original dead sea scrolls, or
any other faith for that matter.

Actually, it does contradict *most* world religions. You are saying
that what we perceive as the 'spiritual reality' beyond this world is
really just a series of complex chemical reactions - no world exists
beyond this one of time/space/matter. *Every* religion (with the
possible exception of Dianetics/Scientology) - every variant of
Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Pagan, animist, etc. -
has at its core the conviction that this world that we see is NOT the
ultimate reality.

Could the prophets *see* a chemical reaction? That my friend was an
unseen world back then. I maintain that nothing in science
contradicts the great faiths before they were translated.


Let me tell you why I believe this is true. All life forms measure
time differently. During a checkride or
harrowing event, I can attest, time slows way down for me. It seems
like it takes forever.

An interesting concept in its own right, as the next poster
illustrated. The great swordsman Miamato Mushashi spoke of "the mind
of no mind." When he was in combat, he was not "aware" of anything,
really, not as most people would define awareness. He simply reacted
to his opponent. Physically, he was likely in a high-alpha-wave state
that researchers call a "flow" or "fugue" state. Subjectively, he was
not thinking. It may have something to do with "spiritual" feelings
or trance states. But it would be an error to assume that the
perception of a spiritual reality is the *result* of an alpha state,
and therefore does not objectively exist. It may be that the
objectively-real spiritual realm can only be perceived when the brain
is in a certain relaxed state.

I suspect that when we die, the mechanism that measures time is
altered. As your brain decomposes, seconds turn to years, minutes
turn to infinity...

Interesting idea, but AFAIK studies of people who have had near-death
experiences does not bear this out. The "floating above by body on
the operating table" experience doesn't have an altered sense of time
passing - persons report watching events in real-time. The "floating
towards a warm white light" doesn't seem to be correlated to belief
system, at least as far as I've read. Interviews with survivors of
drownings don't indicate an altered sense of time (read "The Perfect
Storm" for an interesting and harrowing description of what it's like
to drown).

Well, the subconcious mind is not too reliable (just like RAH :-)
However it is common for Coma patients who have been out for five
years to not believe that even a month has gone by when they recover.
The mind cannot determine time passage without some input. Sleep
studies without the sun bear this out. Sensory deprivation chambers
are famous for confusing the occupants as to what day it is, without a
watch or the sun to mark time. Death may be just an eternal coma.


This would mean that both camps are partly correct in their "faiths."
The athiest is right that all things are physical, and the devote
religious follower is right to want "last rights" from a priest to
get his mind right before he gets stuck into low gear nano-second
time.

Except that what you're *really* saying is that the believer is really
fooling himself; that God, Heaven and Hell are figments of his
imagination. I strenuously disagree. They are real whether or not
you believe in them, as real as the mountain inside the cloud. As
real as the horizon when your 8-ball gyro seizes up.

Got more news: everything you know is a figment of chemical storage.
Nope, the pain is real even though your leg has been cut off. You
still swear you have a leg until you take in some logical
observations; pull the sheet back and use those eyes God gave you. It
shouldn't shake your faith in your brain; even though your brain is
telling you a leg is down there. No you don't have to fool yourself.
Things are only as you percieve them to be. Those things Hell, God,
Heaven, RAH are not simple time/space locations like GPS coordinates.
They aren't physical dots on a map somewhere. They don't exist like
some mirage that solidifies into solid matter. They are, like
everything else you've ever been though, rather, experiences.
Experiences that are recorded and weaved physically in your constantly
evolving chemical brain.

God I get smarter with each post :-)

pac