On 18 Nov 2005 11:39:06 -0800, Doug wrote:

Hey Doug

The standard lapse rate is 3.5F per 1000'. So it you are going to fly
at 5000' above the ground, the temp up there will be 17.5 degrees
colder. Giving 5 degrees for variation, that is 22 degrees colder. So
in this case it would have to be 44 degrees or higher on the ground to
not have ice 5000' higher. (I've done some rounding). Of course you
COULD have inversion. But inversion means it is warmer above. You could
also have a non-standard lapse rate. But this is a calculation worth
doing.

My thoughts b4 launching was that most of the flight was going to be
between 3500 and 4500 AGL on the first portion of the flight. Since sleet
was falling, I honestly expected the temperature to remain or rise a
little.

More deflection with fatter curves. But usually my first indication of
ice has been decreased aircraft performance (if I am in level flight).
Descending or climbing is a little harder to tell.

Yep, exactly right, I had to add power, and I knew that was not normal,
thus no longer depending on the wings for icing but looking at the
temperature probe. No wing strut for my Sundowner *smile*.

As for decending. if it is rime, I think 1500' of undercast is usually
fairly safe. If it is freezing rain then no-go. Someone mentioned 1500'
per minute. But the most important thing is keeping the airplane
upright and not overspeed. You may want to use your standard decent
rate and not go around doing something different.

Which was my initial thought, to maintain as "normal" as possible. I don't
want to stick around in the clouds any longer then necessary, but I don't
want do something reckless either by descending too quickly.. I wasn't
even going to think about deploying flaps. Figured the less metal hanging
out, the less that ice could collect.

A lot of times there is just a thin layer of clouds, like 1000' thick
that you have to climb and decend through. And there is ice in them.
That one is a close call.

For me, won't take a chance if there is known icing. Not worth it. Just
like anything else we do, there is a risk of the unknown, but for me, if
there is ice reported I simply won't go.

If you tell ATC you have ice, be prepared to answer their questions
about it. Rime or clean? What is the temperature etc. They usually want
a full report. After all, if you have ice, YOU'RE the expert.

Which I did when asked by Center. I was surprised that they gave me a
block altitude. Maybe I was a little more pro-active and insuring I get
out of the situation. Just glad it did not become an event.

it. All depends. But the point is, being able to CLIMB is a godsend.
They need their deice mostly on decent. If you cant outclimb it, and
you have low ceilings below you, my suggestion would be TURN AROUND,

Good advice, and in my case, I was right at the tops, so climbing was my
only option.

unless you know that you have VMC in front of you SOON.

And this was my quandry. I was on top, BWG was VMC but from my view, it
was solid overcast, yet ASOS reported broken 4300. So, I knew that the
clouds were about 1700 feet thick based on my current conditions I was
experiencing.

Like I said, we all get ice now and then if we fly in the clouds below
freezing.

I truly hope I never get myself in this situation. Thankfully, I am down
south where icing is an unusual event. I have been flying in the winter
for two seasons, and only once did I come close to freezing temperatures in
the clouds. It was a local flight, doing IFR training, and I had plenty of
outs since it was local.

But don't get yourself boxed in. If you don't have an out,
fly to where you do have an out. And don't fly into a trap where you
can't outclimb the ice, and you can't decend because of low ceilings.
That is where the icing accidents occur. That and on landing with a
load of ice.

Bottom line, good advice above and well appreciated.

Allen