Ed,

Wow, that was a lot of great info. I certainly plan to incorporate as
much as I can, particularly the info on sighting angles.
Unfortunately we don't have a sight guage for use in the Cuban. Now
that I've read a little more, reflected on my lessons, and remembered
what Rich explained when I rolled with him, when doing the aileron
roll I shouldn't need that much of a push when hitting inverted if I
bring the nose up sufficiently before beginning the roll. In fact
that's the purpose of bringing the nose up in the first place if I'm
not mistaken. Bring the nose up to about 30 degrees, neutralize the
elevator, full aileron deflection, and just enough rudder to correct
for adverse yaw. You mention not using top rudder for the first knife
edge but to use it during the second knife edge. Is this for the
aileron roll or slow roll?

I know that for the slow roll we don't bring the nose up as we do in
the aileron roll, but start applying gradual forward pressure after
passing the first knife edge to keep the nose above the horizon and to
prevent the need for a large push while inverted. I also know that
top rudder is necessary for both the first and second knife edge in
this case. I certainly appreciate the advice and feel fortunate to
have such a great community to compliment my training. As I mentioned
the plan is to start refining the maneuvers and have more post-flight
discussion going forward. I'm currently looking to do about ten hours
and then move forward from there.

Dave
"Ed H" wrote in message ...
Sounds great. Welcome to the club. Be careful that you don't get addicted.
I did.

A few general and Decathlon-specific tips to help you:

1. Don't worry about being wiped out, or airsickness. After my first 2
lessons, I had to go home, turn out the lights, and lay down for a few hours
to recover. Within 5 to 10 flights, you will not feel tired at all after a
sortie.

2. The trick to doing a nice roll in the Decathlon is to pitch the nose up
a bit just as you start the roll. Not much at all, just goose the stick
back for a second right as you start to roll, and move it forward to neutral
as you reach full aileron displacement. Then you don't have to push the
nose up when inverted; you just have to keep it up. That is the difference
between a -2G and a -1G roll in the Decathlon. Also, don't use top rudder
on the first knife edge, and use plenty of top rudder on the second knife
edge. Finally, pick a distant terrain feature on the horizon and use it to
keep on heading as you roll.

3. If the owner will let you, mark your windscreen with 2 pieces of tape to
show you where the horizon should be; one for upright, one for inverted.
Trim the aircraft for level flight at roll entry speed, then put the tape on
the vertical metal frame in the center of the windscreen, to mark where it
meets the horizon. Do the same inverted. Make sure the aircraft is in
straight and level inverted flight, not losing any altitude, then mark the
horizon. Imagine a circle between these two pieces of tape. That's what
you roll around.

4. When you apply the ailerons in a roll, concentrate on feeling the stick
go all the way to the control stop. Same for elevator and rudder inputs in
a spin.

5. There are two general approaches to rollout on the immelman. Both use a
visual cue. For the standard by the book immelman, come forward with the
stick in time to stop the horizon right on your inverted tape mark, then
roll. For competition, to avoid getting docked for "drawing a line", start
the roll when the horizon is about halfway between the top of the windscreen
and the inverted tape mark, or a bit sooner. Don't use any forward stick,
and the nose will fall to a perfect level attitude as you reach upright
flight.

6. For the cuban, do you have a sight gauge? If so, look out your wing at
the sight gauge and come forward briskly with the stick just as you reach 45
degrees inverted. Hold it a second, then roll. As you roll, look out the
top of the greenhouse roof and align the horizon with the frame member
between the greenhouse roof and the windscreen. That helps you hold your 45
line, and also ensures you roll all the way around. Hold a split second,
then pull out.

7. For reverse cubans, use the frame between the greenhouse roof and
windscreen as a guide to set the 45 inverted upline. Pull to 45, hold a
split second, then roll and align the frame member with the horizon. Again,
this helps you to avoid over or under rolling.

8. Join the IAC and take up competition at the sportsman level. With about
15 hours of lessons and practice you could fly your first meet and have a
great time. It will force you to learn all kinds of details about how to
fly the maneuvers that you will never pick up if you just go out and fling
yourself around. Not that there's anything wrong with flinging yourself
around.

Keep having a great time!

Ed Haywood