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#1
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a
Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#2
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Good heavens. Do I understand you to mean under the seat pan? Why on
earth would you want to take such a chance? "Little chance" is too much for me. I put the water in a pouch behind the seat backor stuffed behind my head. Sarah Martin Gregorie wrote: A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned "lashing a Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick" in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#3
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone
else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! Gav At 22:06 11 January 2007, Martin Gregorie wrote: A long while back somebody (Ian Molesworth?) mentioned 'lashing a Camelbak under the beam supporting the stick' in a Standard Libelle. With the season visible on the horizon I'm wondering how he did that. There's obviously sufficient space available under the beam and little chance of fouling the controls because the stick linkages are are inside the beam and the rudder cables run in plastic tubes attached to the cockpit walls. My question is - how is the Camelbak tied down to stop it getting where it shouldn't be? There are no obvious tie down points in that area. If anybody on r.a.s has done this I'd very much like to know the secret. TIA Martin -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#4
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head
next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! |
#5
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Gav Goudie wrote:
Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! As I said at the start, I'd seen somebody else claim he did this and I want to know how, because there are no lashing points to prevent anything placed there to get amongst the rudder pedals or disapear under the pan during a winch launch. That doesn't mean I'd do it: I'm allergic to loose stuff getting to where it shouldn't be. I have a spar-top bag that will take the Camelbak and a fleece but little else: some place to put the canopy cover would be nice too. Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head? -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#6
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many control runs back there for it to get tangled up with. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#7
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it
would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! |
#8
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front of the spars,
wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to keep it secure. Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's no need to fret about fouling flight controls. My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept nearly horizontal. When I put it in the plane I route the tube outside the cockpit, and after I'm in I route it over my shoulder and then under my shoulder harness. Once (but only once) I got out and left the tube dangling on the seat. I discovered after I'd gotten in again that it takes a long time for your pants and underpants to dry out... grin -John Martin Gregorie wrote: Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many control runs back there for it to get tangled up with. (from another message) Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head? |
#9
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
I put mine right beside me on my right side with no
further tiedown (Discus B) standing upright and behind the back rest. (I'm a little guy and there is enough room for that; don't remember about the Libelle cockpit arrangement. Why not put it in front of your chest under the harness? Again, a little guy solution. At 19:36 12 January 2007, Jcarlyle wrote: I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front of the spars, wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to keep it secure. Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's no need to fret about fouling flight controls. My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept nearly horizontal. When I put it in the plane I route the tube outside the cockpit, and after I'm in I route it over my shoulder and then under my shoulder harness. Once (but only once) I got out and left the tube dangling on the seat. I discovered after I'd gotten in again that it takes a long time for your pants and underpants to dry out... -John Martin Gregorie wrote: Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many control runs back there for it to get tangled up with. (from another message) Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head? |
#10
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Were that I were little, Nyal - or at least littler! grin I should
have said before that I'm flying an ASW-19, it's Martin who's interested in the Libelle libation setup. That said, at first I did try putting the Camelbak behind the seat, but found there wasn't enough room since I've got to have it all the way back. I don't think I could put it on my chest after I've got the parachute on, but then I haven't tried. Basically, I'm satisfied with it in front of the spars, as I've checked my electrical system and I make sure it's fastened to the spar pins so it can't become a projectile. -John Nyal Williams wrote: I put mine right beside me on my right side with no further tiedown (Discus B) standing upright and behind the back rest. (I'm a little guy and there is enough room for that; don't remember about the Libelle cockpit arrangement. Why not put it in front of your chest under the harness? Again, a little guy solution. |
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