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#1
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Logging again
A Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land takes training in a
Seaplane. He does not have a Seaplane rating. Can he log the training time he receives before he obtains his rating as PIC? |
#2
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"Doug" wrote:
A Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land takes training in a Seaplane. He does not have a Seaplane rating. Can he log the training time he receives before he obtains his rating as PIC? Is this a trick question? (Is this related to IFR?) You need to phrase your question more clearly. There are two ways to parse that sentence, and the yes/no answer is different depending on how you intend us to interpret the question. The first possibility is as Bob already said, obviously yes, you can log the instruction as dual received prior to obtaining the rating to act as PIC. The second possibility, also obvious from 61.51(e), is no, you cannot log the instruction time as PIC because you're not rated for the airplane. |
#3
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Sorry to be unclear. The question is, can a private rated pilot single
engine land log pre-seaplane checkride training time as PIC? Yes he logs it as dual instruction received, but can he log it as PIC by virtue of manipulating the controls? 61.51 Perhaps a Craig Prouse wrote in message ... "Doug" wrote: A Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land takes training in a Seaplane. He does not have a Seaplane rating. Can he log the training time he receives before he obtains his rating as PIC? Is this a trick question? (Is this related to IFR?) You need to phrase your question more clearly. There are two ways to parse that sentence, and the yes/no answer is different depending on how you intend us to interpret the question. The first possibility is as Bob already said, obviously yes, you can log the instruction as dual received prior to obtaining the rating to act as PIC. The second possibility, also obvious from 61.51(e), is no, you cannot log the instruction time as PIC because you're not rated for the airplane. |
#4
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Sole manipulator of an aircraft for which he is rated (61.51e)...if his
ticket says "Single Engine - Land" he is not rated for seaplanes and cannot log the time as PIC. Bob Gardner "Doug" wrote in message om... Sorry to be unclear. The question is, can a private rated pilot single engine land log pre-seaplane checkride training time as PIC? Yes he logs it as dual instruction received, but can he log it as PIC by virtue of manipulating the controls? 61.51 Perhaps a Craig Prouse wrote in message ... "Doug" wrote: A Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land takes training in a Seaplane. He does not have a Seaplane rating. Can he log the training time he receives before he obtains his rating as PIC? Is this a trick question? (Is this related to IFR?) You need to phrase your question more clearly. There are two ways to parse that sentence, and the yes/no answer is different depending on how you intend us to interpret the question. The first possibility is as Bob already said, obviously yes, you can log the instruction as dual received prior to obtaining the rating to act as PIC. The second possibility, also obvious from 61.51(e), is no, you cannot log the instruction time as PIC because you're not rated for the airplane. |
#5
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"Bob Gardner" wrote
Sole manipulator of an aircraft for which he is rated (61.51e)...if his ticket says "Single Engine - Land" he is not rated for seaplanes and cannot log the time as PIC. Bob, what about any solo practice time that he is signed-off to fly prior to the practical test? Seems to me that this would be treated as any student pilot solo time and be logged as PIC. I don't think that the original poster specified that it was dual instruction as opposed to solo instruction. Bob Moore |
#6
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Greg Esres wrote
"Solo instruction" seems an oxymoron. The term doesn't appear in the FARs, nor in the FAQs. Perhaps I should have said "solo flight training". :-) Section 61.109: Aeronautical experience. (a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least -- Bob Moore |
#7
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"Doug" wrote in message om... Sorry to be unclear. The question is, can a private rated pilot single engine land log pre-seaplane checkride training time as PIC? Yes he logs it as dual instruction received, but can he log it as PIC by virtue of manipulating the controls? No. He must be rated for the aircraft. He can log PIC time any time he solos the seaplane. |
#8
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"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:07:21 -0400, "Ron Natalie" wrote: If you have any pilot certificate, you can log PIC time when solo. Yes but if you have a private certificate without a seaplane rating, can an instructor sign you off to solo the aircraft? Yes. You can solo the seaplane before the rating. I seem to recall this being a contradiction in the rules, in that an instructor can sign off a student pilot to fly solo in an aircraft in which he is not rated; but was not able to do a solo authorization for a certificated pilot. When the 61 rewrite came in, they seem to have forgotten about people soloing when adding ratings. The "solo pic logging" clause had been deleted from 61.51, etc... This has been fixed for a while now. Howevewr, the provision for actually flying solo is here 61.31 (c) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire. Unless a person holds a category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required) that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft for compensation or hire. 61.31 (d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must - (1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown; (2) Be receiving training for the purpose of obtaining an additional pilot certificate and rating that are appropriate to that aircraft, and be under the supervision of an authorized instructor; or (3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft. and as long as you are VFR (61.3 requires at least category and class ratints in addition to the instrument rating). |
#9
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Thanks for that info.
--ron On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:19:12 -0400, "Ron Natalie" wrote: "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:07:21 -0400, "Ron Natalie" wrote: If you have any pilot certificate, you can log PIC time when solo. Yes but if you have a private certificate without a seaplane rating, can an instructor sign you off to solo the aircraft? Yes. You can solo the seaplane before the rating. I seem to recall this being a contradiction in the rules, in that an instructor can sign off a student pilot to fly solo in an aircraft in which he is not rated; but was not able to do a solo authorization for a certificated pilot. When the 61 rewrite came in, they seem to have forgotten about people soloing when adding ratings. The "solo pic logging" clause had been deleted from 61.51, etc... This has been fixed for a while now. Howevewr, the provision for actually flying solo is here 61.31 (c) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on the carriage of persons, or operating for compensation or hire. Unless a person holds a category, class, and type rating (if a class and type rating is required) that applies to the aircraft, that person may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying another person, or is operated for compensation or hire. That person also may not act as pilot in command of that aircraft for compensation or hire. 61.31 (d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must - (1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown; (2) Be receiving training for the purpose of obtaining an additional pilot certificate and rating that are appropriate to that aircraft, and be under the supervision of an authorized instructor; or (3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft. and as long as you are VFR (61.3 requires at least category and class ratints in addition to the instrument rating). Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#10
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I don't want to extrapolate my own seaplane training to the whole wide
world, but no solo time is required and I didn't get any. Considering how the insurance industry has come down on water operations generally, I wonder if any float-plane school allows students to solo, and if any owner-student has a policy permitting flight before the rating is earned. Bob Gardner "Robert Moore" wrote in message . 6... "Bob Gardner" wrote Sole manipulator of an aircraft for which he is rated (61.51e)...if his ticket says "Single Engine - Land" he is not rated for seaplanes and cannot log the time as PIC. Bob, what about any solo practice time that he is signed-off to fly prior to the practical test? Seems to me that this would be treated as any student pilot solo time and be logged as PIC. I don't think that the original poster specified that it was dual instruction as opposed to solo instruction. Bob Moore |
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