No Damage History?

I'm wondering what everyone else's definition of "Damage History" is.
After looking through Ebay for a Cessna 172 I ran across this description:

Complete Logs, Computerized AD List,
Logs reflect no history of damage except:
11/2/95 Off airport landing; Wings, rudder & vertical fin replaced with
exchange units.
11/1/96 Hangar rash; R/H elevator re-skinned
5/16/97 Hit runway light on landing with tail; replaced rear tail cone skin,
rudder & stabilizer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
Maybe I misunderstood?
Maybe what this seller is really saying is that none of the damage was
recorded in the a/c log.
You be the judge, see the ad for yourself at Ebay item # 2451430535

David

"CFLav8r" wrote:
I'm wondering what everyone else's definition of "Damage
History" is.
Complete Logs, Computerized AD List,
Logs reflect no history of damage except:
11/2/95 Off airport landing; Wings, rudder & vertical fin
replaced with exchange units.
11/1/96 Hangar rash; R/H elevator re-skinned
5/16/97 Hit runway light on landing with tail; replaced rear
tail cone skin, rudder & stabilizer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Ha-ha!
"Antique axe from Civil War era for sale: new handle 1973, new blade
1989. $500."
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"CFLav8r" wrote in message om...
I'm wondering what everyone else's definition of "Damage History" is.
After looking through Ebay for a Cessna 172 I ran across this description:

Complete Logs, Computerized AD List,
Logs reflect no history of damage except:


I don't know what you expect, it looks straight forward. It says that
there is no damage history in the logs other than the three incidents
listed. It doesn't say "NO DAMAGE HISTORY" in the auction
anywhere. It does say "No Major Damage" in the original listing
Having to replace both wings and the tail in an off-airport landing
(read CRASH) sounds major to me. Of course, he did disclose that
in a revision that was placed before the bidding got serious (and
nobody has yet cleared the reserve anyhow).

You be the judge, see the ad for yourself at Ebay item # 2451430535

Funny - I never knew that bird was up for sale. It belongs to a flying club
based at MSN.. I've never flown it, but my instructor has many times, and
made the comment that 'it just didn't fly right'...


--
Ben
C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y

"CFLav8r" wrote in
om:

I'm wondering what everyone else's definition of "Damage History" is.

As you surmise, there is not precise legal definition that I am aware
of. There are few aircraft in the fleet these days that haven't had a
piece of aluminum replaced SOMEWHERE due to a rock or hangar rash or
whatever.

Logs reflect no history of damage except:
11/2/95 Off airport landing; Wings, rudder & vertical fin replaced
with exchange units.
11/1/96 Hangar rash; R/H elevator re-skinned
5/16/97 Hit runway light on landing with tail; replaced rear tail cone
skin, rudder & stabilizer

Two issues here. First, note that he is not saying this is a "no damage
history" aircraft. He is saying the only damage is... and lists it.

Second issue, could this aircraft be called "no damage history"? In my
opinion, absolutely not. Both wings, rudder, and vertical? That's
pretty durn major IMHO. OTOH, those items are designed to come off. If
they were replaced with undamaged replacements, then one *could* argue
that there is no longer any damaged items on the plane. I've seen
brokers try to cover themselves this way... and in terms of practical
value of the aircraft, there may be something to their arguement. But
"no damage history"? No way.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

"James M. Knox" wrote in message ...

Second issue, could this aircraft be called "no damage history"? In my
opinion, absolutely not. Both wings, rudder, and vertical? That's
pretty durn major IMHO. OTOH, those items are designed to come off. If
they were replaced with undamaged replacements, then one *could* argue
that there is no longer any damaged items on the plane.

Of course if you damage a plane such that these parts need replacing, one has to
beg the question what else might have been damaged. At least he disclosed it.
With those red flags, I'd never buy the airplane for the price he's wanting (It
hasn't cleared the reserve at $35K and the BIN is $40K so I suspect that is the price
he expects to get). No way would I would buy it without further inspection.
It might be a good price, but you can't tell just on the basis of the description.

His KING radios he makes as a selling point are junk (one 170 and one MAC
170 upgrade, sheesh). Also his "big one owner" selling point is sort of countered
by the fact that it's been abused by renter pilots for almost 9000 hours.

Wonder what happened at ~1700 hours when the engine was removed.

The 1995 crash was "The airplane sustained substantial damage when it nosed over during the
landing roll following a forced landing." But that would seem to be later in the history than
1700 hours. So in addition to the "repaired damage", there was most likely a prop strike
(on albeit a windmilling engine).

The 1997 "runway light" incident was really a collision with the VASI's after a bounced
landing. Again the report says "substantially damaged." A little more than just running
over a runway edge light as suggested.

OTOH, those items are designed to come off. If
they were replaced with undamaged replacements, then one *could* argue
that there is no longer any damaged items on the plane. I've seen
brokers try to cover themselves this way... and in terms of practical
value of the aircraft, there may be something to their arguement.

Well, there's "Damage History" and then there's "Ancient Damage History".

When my plane was just a few months old, back in 1974, the first owner
departed the runway on landing (or "lost directional control" as they say),
and sheared off the left landing gear. The left wing was pretty banged up,
too.

Back then apparently there were places called "Piper Service Centers" that
did repairs, rather than just "Joe's FBO". They repaired "Atlas" to "new
factory specs" with all new parts, and returned him to his owner, none the
worse for wear.

Now that was 29.5 years ago on a 30 year old airplane. Would you say my
plane has "damage history"?

I would. But does it matter?

Not to me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
: Well, there's "Damage History" and then there's "Ancient Damage History".

snip
: Now that was 29.5 years ago on a 30 year old airplane. Would you say my
: plane has "damage history"?

When my airplane was 6 months old, someone did almost exactly the same
maneuver, wiping out the left wing rear attach point. Was repaired so
well that even the previous owner didn't know about it.

Since it's been flying fine for, oh, the last 34 1/2 years (longer that I
have been around), this really didn't mean a lot to me. Will it make a
difference when I sell the airplane? Cannot say.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:0SkKb.752801$Tr4.2086487@attbi_s03:

Now that was 29.5 years ago on a 30 year old airplane. Would you say
my plane has "damage history"?

Jay, you know the answer to that question. Namely, it depends upon whether
I am selling, or buying! {:)

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Now that was 29.5 years ago on a 30 year old airplane. Would you say
my plane has "damage history"?

Jay, you know the answer to that question. Namely, it depends upon
whether
I am selling, or buying! {:)

Ah, good point. ;-)

It didn't deter me, though. And as the fleet gets older and older, the
odds of finding a true "NDH" aircraft become less and less.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"