How to get Aviation Position - Engineer/Business

Hi folks,

Looking for some advise

This might seem strange.
I'm one of those guys who didn't have much "vision" earlier on in life in terms
of what I wanted to do. I got plenty-o-schooling, but feel now, nearing age 37, that
I didn't make the "best choices" in terms of a career that makes me happy.

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, a bunch of graduate study in the field, a
fair amount of software experience, and a Masters of Science in Business
just to complete the lobotomy.

I live in the Baltimore-DC area, and desperately want to change careers into
the aviation industry. I'm enjoy my schooling, just not the field that I work in.
In fact, I'd like to keep a position that relies on my skills because it is what
I'm best at.

I'm very interested in Product/Project Management and or Business Development
or Marketing in the Aviation Industry. (Less defense and civil and consumer).
However, I'm not going to limit it! I have excellent communication skills (although
my typing is pathetic), and one fantastic attitude.

Oh - I'm a student pilot who intends to get my PPL by next fall.

How in the he!! do I look to get into that area.
I'd be willing to move, but would like to exhaust opportunities in the major
DC and Baltimore regions first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
(Should you actually help me find a job, I'll make sure you get one fantastic REWARD! Ha!
I call it a finder's fee, but it won't be a just a dinner!)

Thanks to all who contribute to this fantastic newsgroup (I only found it about
3 months ago).

Regards,

Gary

How about checking in to State Gov't? Most State transportation departments
have an Aviation bureau.

Gary G wrote:

I'm very interested in Product/Project Management and or Business Development
or Marketing in the Aviation Industry. (Less defense and civil and consumer).
However, I'm not going to limit it! I have excellent communication skills (although
my typing is pathetic), and one fantastic attitude.

Go to the Lockheed-Martin web site and put your resume in. They have facilities in
New Jersey near Philadelphia (can't remember the town name, but it starts with "M")
and contracts with the FAA near Atlantic City. You can find a number of listings for
them at dice.com using "software" as a search key, limiting the search to New Jersey.
You might also check Boeing.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:52:14 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

They have facilities in
New Jersey near Philadelphia (can't remember the town name, but it starts with "M")


Moorestown. Not sure this is what he wants though since I'm sure alot
of the work has to do with defense contracting.

z

I tried this myself this summer, with no success. I also have a EE/CE
background with ten years experience in the semiconductor industry as
a circuit designer, chip architect, field applications engineer
(sales), and some managerial experience, too. (alas, no business
education). I have PP-ASEL with IR.

Anyway, I have no family or spouse, so taking the summer off was
eminently doable, and while I was having fun doing various things, I
also mounted a campaign to find a job in aviation, similarly, in some
sort of engineering/technical marketing role. I wanted to stay out of
defense.

I looked at airframe companies, avionics manufacturers primarily.

Well, lots of resumes went out and even a few phonecalls, but I never
got anywhere with it. It was a painfully disappointing experience. I
don't know if aviation-related business just aren't highering, or I
was simply unable to convince hiring managers that my skills in the
chip business might be transferable. (managers in the twenty-first
century seem even less imaginative than in the last)

Partly, I think I could have been more tenacious about the search. I
gave up and went back to my old business after the summer. I could
have kept going, and maybe should have. Also, I should have continued
to try to make contacts at companies, even if I had to result to cold
calling and making a general pest of myself.

I do remember one particularly memorably phonecall with a senior
executive at Boeing, that of all people, my mom helped me get through
the mom-network. For one full hour I got nothing but an earful of how
aviation is a dead-end industry, it's not a good time to pursue a
career in same, don't get it, everyone is getting out, you won't be
developed, you'll be dumped when the company's needs change,
everything is being outsourced, Boeing is out of the aircraft business
and is not only an integrator, etc, etc. Talk about depressing! This
guy had had a 30 year career at the company, too. Seems he did
alright.

That dude ****ed me off. I'm sure you'll find more energized people
out there. I be the vibe a company like Eclipse is more entrepeneurial
and exciting (if risky). Or Garmin, Avidyne, etc.

Good luck,
Dave Jacobowitz
jacobowitz73 --at-- yahoo --dot-- com


"Gary G" wrote in message ...
Hi folks,

Looking for some advise

This might seem strange.
I'm one of those guys who didn't have much "vision" earlier on in life in terms
of what I wanted to do. I got plenty-o-schooling, but feel now, nearing age 37, that
I didn't make the "best choices" in terms of a career that makes me happy.

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, a bunch of graduate study in the field, a
fair amount of software experience, and a Masters of Science in Business
just to complete the lobotomy.

I live in the Baltimore-DC area, and desperately want to change careers into
the aviation industry. I'm enjoy my schooling, just not the field that I work in.
In fact, I'd like to keep a position that relies on my skills because it is what
I'm best at.

I'm very interested in Product/Project Management and or Business Development
or Marketing in the Aviation Industry. (Less defense and civil and consumer).
However, I'm not going to limit it! I have excellent communication skills (although
my typing is pathetic), and one fantastic attitude.

Oh - I'm a student pilot who intends to get my PPL by next fall.

How in the he!! do I look to get into that area.
I'd be willing to move, but would like to exhaust opportunities in the major
DC and Baltimore regions first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
(Should you actually help me find a job, I'll make sure you get one fantastic REWARD! Ha!
I call it a finder's fee, but it won't be a just a dinner!)

Thanks to all who contribute to this fantastic newsgroup (I only found it about
3 months ago).

Regards,

Gary

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...

That dude ****ed me off. I'm sure you'll find more energized people
out there. I be the vibe a company like Eclipse is more entrepeneurial
and exciting (if risky). Or Garmin, Avidyne, etc.

If he's been at Boeing since 1970 or so, he's seen the best and the worst
years of aerospace on both the commercial and defense side. To hit your peak
career years in the 80s boom and then watch the bottom fall out after the
cold war ended could make anybody bitter.

If you want to work for a GA manufacturer, consider that you're trying to
sell yourself into a pretty small market. There are relatively few large
companies and everyone knows about them so you're probably going to be
facing too much competition. Small companies typically hire people mostly
through referrals, so if you want to get into a company like, say, GAMI,
cold-calling is probably the best approach. Go to Amazon and pick yourself
up a book on general sales skills- I like "Solution Selling"- and buy
yourself a Plantronics headset on eBay and start dialing for dollars. Call
before 9, during lunch, and after 5 when the person you're trying to reach
will be less distracted. If the company is smaller than say 50 people, my
suggestion is to head straight for the CEO's office. The worst thing that
can happen is he transfers you to HR, so why not take a chance at hitting a
home run? If he says they're not hiring, ask him if he knows anybody else
you should call. Call them, and say, "Bob Smith at Snafu Inc. gave me your
name." Lather, rinse, repeat.

Another way to take it would be to say, "Bob, I'm not coming here looking
for a job. What I'm trying to find out is how does an experienced, dedicated
engineer with blah-blah-blah break into this business? How did you do it?"
Just engage in a conversation, and figure out what it is you have to offer.
This might be better initially, because it helps prevent you from coming
across as desperate, which is the kiss of death. Of course, if they are
looking for/thinking of hiring someone and you fit the profile, they're
going to tell you, and if they do ask for a resume, you can bet it will get
better handling than if you just send it over the transom.

The telephone is an incredible money-making machine, but most people are
deathly afraid of it. And then, of the people who do use it, most use it
very poorly. You don't have to enjoy it but know that if you keep at it you
*will* eventually find what you're looking for.

-cwk.

Maybe you should've listened to the man carefully... After all, if he
was wrong, you would've been able to find employment... Maybe you
should thank the man for telling the truth rather than being ****ed
off at him.

-Toly.


I do remember one particularly memorably phonecall with a senior
executive at Boeing, that of all people, my mom helped me get through
the mom-network. For one full hour I got nothing but an earful of how
aviation is a dead-end industry, it's not a good time to pursue a
career in same, don't get it, everyone is getting out, you won't be
developed, you'll be dumped when the company's needs change,
everything is being outsourced, Boeing is out of the aircraft business
and is not only an integrator, etc, etc. Talk about depressing! This
guy had had a 30 year career at the company, too. Seems he did
alright.

That dude ****ed me off. I'm sure you'll find more energized people
out there. I be the vibe a company like Eclipse is more entrepeneurial
and exciting (if risky). Or Garmin, Avidyne, etc.

I worked at Lockheed in Moorestown for four years and they don't do
aeronautics there. Moorestown focuses primarily on shipboard systems,
namely Aegis and weapon systems for the next generation of Navy ships.

Dave

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:52:14 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

They have facilities in
New Jersey near Philadelphia (can't remember the town name, but it starts with "M")


Moorestown. Not sure this is what he wants though since I'm sure alot
of the work has to do with defense contracting.

z

Be careful what you wish for...

I left a good EE design job at HP in Feb 2002 to work for a
Boise-based avionics company. I designed an interface box for their
EFIS system doing all of the system design, schematic design, board
layout, firmware, DO-178B design documentation, build and integration,
and test management solo. The box I designed was granted TSO approval
in October 2003.

I was underpaid, had no 401k, was poorly treated by my management, and
generally un-appreciated. While I was there, two of my co-workers in
the marketing department died in a plane crash, and my boss who was
the sole survivor and was not the PIC was forced out of the company by
his partners two weeks after the accident while he was still
recovering from surgery on his leg.

These same "nice guys" who back-stabbed their partner made my life
hell starting in January 2003. I would have left sooner if I hadn't
had a mortgage and a family to support, but I finally landed a job
back at HP in September of 2003.

I started my career at Boeing and had worked there for 8 years. My
Boeing experience working on the 777 was one of my best working
experiences, while the time I spent working at this other avionics
company was the absolute worst of my career.

Just because it looks like fun doesn't mean it is the best thing for
you to do. Be careful and do due-diligence before you jump into an
aviation company just because you think it will be fun. Odds are that
they won't compensate you as well as a commercial electronics company
because they consider it a "privilege" to work on aviation related
products and will try to take advantage of your enthusiasm. That
isn't to say that all of the companies in this industry are that way,
but I think that you will find that they aren't rare either...

Best Regards,

Dean

(Dave Jacobowitz) wrote in message . com...
I tried this myself this summer, with no success. I also have a EE/CE
background with ten years experience in the semiconductor industry as
a circuit designer, chip architect, field applications engineer
(sales), and some managerial experience, too. (alas, no business
education). I have PP-ASEL with IR.

Anyway, I have no family or spouse, so taking the summer off was
eminently doable, and while I was having fun doing various things, I
also mounted a campaign to find a job in aviation, similarly, in some
sort of engineering/technical marketing role. I wanted to stay out of
defense.

I looked at airframe companies, avionics manufacturers primarily.

Well, lots of resumes went out and even a few phonecalls, but I never
got anywhere with it. It was a painfully disappointing experience. I
don't know if aviation-related business just aren't highering, or I
was simply unable to convince hiring managers that my skills in the
chip business might be transferable. (managers in the twenty-first
century seem even less imaginative than in the last)

Partly, I think I could have been more tenacious about the search. I
gave up and went back to my old business after the summer. I could
have kept going, and maybe should have. Also, I should have continued
to try to make contacts at companies, even if I had to result to cold
calling and making a general pest of myself.

I do remember one particularly memorably phonecall with a senior
executive at Boeing, that of all people, my mom helped me get through
the mom-network. For one full hour I got nothing but an earful of how
aviation is a dead-end industry, it's not a good time to pursue a
career in same, don't get it, everyone is getting out, you won't be
developed, you'll be dumped when the company's needs change,
everything is being outsourced, Boeing is out of the aircraft business
and is not only an integrator, etc, etc. Talk about depressing! This
guy had had a 30 year career at the company, too. Seems he did
alright.

That dude ****ed me off. I'm sure you'll find more energized people
out there. I be the vibe a company like Eclipse is more entrepeneurial
and exciting (if risky). Or Garmin, Avidyne, etc.

Good luck,
Dave Jacobowitz
jacobowitz73 --at-- yahoo --dot-- com


"Gary G" wrote in message ...
Hi folks,

Looking for some advise

This might seem strange.
I'm one of those guys who didn't have much "vision" earlier on in life in terms
of what I wanted to do. I got plenty-o-schooling, but feel now, nearing age 37, that
I didn't make the "best choices" in terms of a career that makes me happy.

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, a bunch of graduate study in the field, a
fair amount of software experience, and a Masters of Science in Business
just to complete the lobotomy.

I live in the Baltimore-DC area, and desperately want to change careers into
the aviation industry. I'm enjoy my schooling, just not the field that I work in.
In fact, I'd like to keep a position that relies on my skills because it is what
I'm best at.

I'm very interested in Product/Project Management and or Business Development
or Marketing in the Aviation Industry. (Less defense and civil and consumer).
However, I'm not going to limit it! I have excellent communication skills (although
my typing is pathetic), and one fantastic attitude.

Oh - I'm a student pilot who intends to get my PPL by next fall.

How in the he!! do I look to get into that area.
I'd be willing to move, but would like to exhaust opportunities in the major
DC and Baltimore regions first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
(Should you actually help me find a job, I'll make sure you get one fantastic REWARD! Ha!
I call it a finder's fee, but it won't be a just a dinner!)

Thanks to all who contribute to this fantastic newsgroup (I only found it about
3 months ago).

Regards,

Gary

"David B. Cole" wrote in message
m...
I worked at Lockheed in Moorestown for four years and they don't do
aeronautics there. Moorestown focuses primarily on shipboard systems,
namely Aegis and weapon systems for the next generation of Navy ships.

Dave


Hey Dave,

I used to work for a production company near Philly where we edited down the
film/video footage from Aegis-class tests and shakedown cruises for RCA Sea
Systems.

Which leads to the question:

Does the USS Rancocas (aka the "Cornfield Cruiser") still exist?

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL