How did the Iranians get the Phoenix to work?

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained technicians, spare parts, and
time.

"Ragnar" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Ragnar" wrote in message
link.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that
the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against
Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians
altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never
fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did
they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained
technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school
with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.


Not to mention clandestine US assistance in the early 1980s, plus shipments
of -54A missiles when the USN went to the -54C. It appears that they have
reverse-engineered the -54A and build an unliscensed version of Phoenix.


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

"Matt Wiser" wrote in message news:3f762c9c@bg2....

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Ragnar" wrote in message
link.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that
the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against
Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians
altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never
fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did
they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained
technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school
with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.


Not to mention clandestine US assistance in the early 1980s, plus
shipments
of -54A missiles when the USN went to the -54C. It appears that they have
reverse-engineered the -54A and build an unliscensed version of Phoenix.

Not to mention Dr. Liao's IEEE summer intern program at Hugh's LAX.

"Matt Wiser" wrote in message news:3f762c9c@bg2....

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

"Ragnar" wrote in message
link.net...

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that
the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against
Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians
altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never
fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did
they overcome the sabotage?

They had the maintenance manuals, US-trained
technicians, spare parts, and
time.

They made a homebuilt Phoenix. I went to school
with Iranian engineering
students at CSUF, they have the skill.


Not to mention clandestine US assistance in the early 1980s, plus
shipments
of -54A missiles when the USN went to the -54C. It appears that they have
reverse-engineered the -54A and build an unliscensed version of Phoenix.

Matt,
USN AIM-54As (and even less so their AIM-54Cs) are the same as Iranian
AIM-54As: so, they could not have been given to Iran even during the
"Irangate" affair.

The Iranians knew this so they also never asked for complete missiles. What
they were looking for instead (and what was usually smuggled) were
maintenance+upgrade packages and batteries for their AIM-54s.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

Ups, sorry: that first sentence should have been:

USN AIM-54As (and even less so their AIM-54Cs) are _NOT_ the same as
Iranian
AIM-54As: so, they could not have been given to Iran even during the
"Irangate" affair.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Tom Cooper" wrote:
Ups, sorry: that first sentence should have
been:

USN AIM-54As (and even less so their AIM-54Cs)
are _NOT_ the same as
Iranian
AIM-54As: so, they could not have been given
to Iran even during the
"Irangate" affair.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585


Then why were new Phoenixes on Iran's shopping list during those secret
(and illegal) deals? Were those the rounds that were ordered but not delivered?


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:48:56 GMT, Tom Cooper wrote:

The Iranians knew this so they also never asked for complete missiles. What
they were looking for instead (and what was usually smuggled) were
maintenance+upgrade packages and batteries for their AIM-54s.

Why couldn't they make their own batteries? It's not exactly rocket
science is it? (Unless you're putting it in a rocket, but you know
what I mean).

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:48:56 GMT, Tom Cooper wrote:

The Iranians knew this so they also never asked for complete missiles.
What
they were looking for instead (and what was usually smuggled) were
maintenance+upgrade packages and batteries for their AIM-54s.

Why couldn't they make their own batteries? It's not exactly rocket
science is it? (Unless you're putting it in a rocket, but you know
what I mean).

It's not a "rocket science", but not far from it either. At the time there
was simply no capability in Iran to produce such batteries.

Besides, they were not lacking the batteries all the times: most of the
times they could easily get new ones at a price of something like $10.000 on
the "black market".

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Hobo" wrote in message
...


Some people here have been claiming that the Iranians made effective and
widespread use of the Phoenix missle against Iraq. I have always read
that after the Shah fell US civilian technicians altered the F-14s they
were servicing so that they could never fire the Phoenix. If the
Iranians *did* use the Phoenix, how did they overcome the sabotage?

Hobo,
don't get me wrong, but there is a book that describes it all nicely and to
the last details: http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php

Don't be lazy, but check it there and you'll see that all similar rumors
about the US technicians "sabotaging" Iranian F-14s so these couldn't fire
AIM-54s are actually a complete and utter nonsence.

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585