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#1
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CFIG Lawsuits?
Hi All,
Recently some CFIGs in our local club have really gotten skittish about sharing their knowledge. They seem to be getting all amped up about the legal liability issues of instructing in today's court system - even to the point of being reluctant to talk in our club's online discussion forum about general soaring knowledge! I think this is a bit paranoid, but I understand their concern. Its a simple fact that in the USA today there's no fool-proof way to prevent yourself from being sued over _anything_. The case might eventually be dismissed - but there's no way to stop it before you have to retain defense counsel and such (costing you $$). The question in my mind is much more about the LIKELIHOOD of being the target of legal action, and how to reduce the risk. There's CFI insurance out there - but some aviation attorneys claim that the deep pockets of an insurance company attract legal action just as much as they help defend against it. And in our club's particular situation (volunteer instructors and free instruction for students), the cost is prohibitive. And liability waivers and exculpatory statements are not always recognized by the court. I've emailed the AOPA and gotten a few answers from John Yodice (mostly recommendations to study previous articles he's written in AOPA Pilot magazine) - but In trying to determine the likelihood of legal action I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG that was the target of legal action because of something a student did (during training, or long after training was completed). Anyone? Thanks, --Noel |
#2
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CFIG Lawsuits?
A FIRC instructor said his main technique was to use a PTS and after every
lesson he'd ask the student if he was taught X,Y, and Z then they would both initial X, Y, and Z. When the student was finished this instructor would then keep the PTS forever. Hopefully avoids negligence claims. At 00:58 31 October 2008, noel.wade wrote: Hi All, Recently some CFIGs in our local club have really gotten skittish about sharing their knowledge. They seem to be getting all amped up about the legal liability issues of instructing in today's court system - even to the point of being reluctant to talk in our club's online discussion forum about general soaring knowledge! I think this is a bit paranoid, but I understand their concern. Its a simple fact that in the USA today there's no fool-proof way to prevent yourself from being sued over _anything_. The case might eventually be dismissed - but there's no way to stop it before you have to retain defense counsel and such (costing you $$). The question in my mind is much more about the LIKELIHOOD of being the target of legal action, and how to reduce the risk. There's CFI insurance out there - but some aviation attorneys claim that the deep pockets of an insurance company attract legal action just as much as they help defend against it. And in our club's particular situation (volunteer instructors and free instruction for students), the cost is prohibitive. And liability waivers and exculpatory statements are not always recognized by the court. I've emailed the AOPA and gotten a few answers from John Yodice (mostly recommendations to study previous articles he's written in AOPA Pilot magazine) - but In trying to determine the likelihood of legal action I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG that was the target of legal action because of something a student did (during training, or long after training was completed). Anyone? Thanks, --Noel |
#3
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CFIG Lawsuits?
"noel.wade" wrote in message ... I'd love to know if any of you have ever known a CFIG that was the target of legal action because of something a student did (during training, or long after training was completed). Nope, I have never heard of it actually happening. Note that (depending on the laws of your own state) the average US wage earner is almost unsueable as an individual because no attorney is willing to bother unless there are available lump-sum assets to be won. In my state, your primary residence and transportation are protected. I have never seen wages actually seized by anyone except the IRS (with the possible exception of child support cases). CFI liability insurance might actually backfire on a person, because that could provide just enough money to attract lawsuit, yet not pay enough to cover an entire jury award. That said, if a club can't afford to pay for CFI liability insurance, perhaps they can't really afford to fly. The very best defense is to follow the PTS, use published lesson plans such as those by Knauf, and document every step of the way. Vaughn |
#4
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CFIG Lawsuits?
* The very best defense is to follow the PTS, use published lesson plans such as those by Knauf, and document every step of the way. I 100% agree with that. I'm an instructor for an airline in the simulators and out on the line. This is a huge issue that gets discussed regularly. Quite often pilots will violate a clearance, get fired, suspended or whatever. Then the union lawyers get involved, the FAA gets involved and instructors jobs are then questioned as to whether he/she was taught the correct procedure or not. Infact it is not un-common for the FAA to come interview every instructor that dealt with a particular pilot after a crash involves a fatality. I've had dozens of friends interviewed by the FAA with this matter. And in some cases, the instructor lost their license/ability to instruct or had to go through specific extra training to remain in good standing with the FAA. And in one case, the instructor was not giving evidence that he taught the student correctly....and the FAA took away all his ratings except for his private! What we do at my airline to prevent the instructor from coming under fire, is document, document, document. We follow an FAA approved lesson plan for each simulator lesson, then at the end, make the student sign agreeing that all lessons were complete. The student also has a folder with notes for each day. I constantly write references to notes that are page numbers to the operating manual or far's. I'm working on my CFI-G right now. Should be done this year. When I take on a student, I'll be sure to follow Tom Knauf's lesson plans. And if the lesson is incomplete or un-acceptable, we will do it again, and document it. I also plan on taking detailed notes after each flight to let the student know where they stand with their strengths and weaknesses, and to cover my butt too. I copy all documents & notes, for my airline pilot instructing and store all this in a month's folder. I have a big box in the garage for the past few years. I also copy the checklists per lesson, that are intialed by me and the student to put in this box. I think by going this far with this, I can instruct, and cover every base just incase the FAA calls me up if a past student ended up in a bad fatal accident. |
#5
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CFIG Lawsuits?
At an SSA FIRC I believe it was said by a presenter that no lawsuit
had every arisen against a CFI-G from an accident. Doesn't mean that it will not but only that it never has. You might verify the above statement with the SSF. At the FIRC proper documentation of training was emphsized. The AOPA articles that the original poster mentioned were very interesting as they seemed to support strongly the value of having persons sign a liability wavior and avoid the unlikely possibility of being classified as a "common carrier". Make sure your club's corporate status is maintained with your state and minimal assets are retained in it. The real open issue is the cost of defense against frivilous lawsuits, while it is possible your homeowners policy might step in so far as providing defense, I would not count on it. So really it is a "layered defense", beginning with good documentation of training (drop any CFIG that refuses), 100% coverage with liability waviors, some liability insurance on the aircraft, and an in force corporate charter containing minimal assets. I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice but merely a layman's exploration of the issues. And with the above noted, I'm still working to get my CFIG. HU |
#6
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CFIG Lawsuits?
How do you set up ownership of the assets of the club and not have those
assets tied to the club in some way? Fred "HoUdino" wrote in message ... At an SSA FIRC I believe it was said by a presenter that no lawsuit had every arisen against a CFI-G from an accident. Doesn't mean that it will not but only that it never has. You might verify the above statement with the SSF. At the FIRC proper documentation of training was emphsized. The AOPA articles that the original poster mentioned were very interesting as they seemed to support strongly the value of having persons sign a liability wavior and avoid the unlikely possibility of being classified as a "common carrier". Make sure your club's corporate status is maintained with your state and minimal assets are retained in it. The real open issue is the cost of defense against frivilous lawsuits, while it is possible your homeowners policy might step in so far as providing defense, I would not count on it. So really it is a "layered defense", beginning with good documentation of training (drop any CFIG that refuses), 100% coverage with liability waviors, some liability insurance on the aircraft, and an in force corporate charter containing minimal assets. I am not a lawyer, the above is not legal advice but merely a layman's exploration of the issues. And with the above noted, I'm still working to get my CFIG. HU |
#7
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CFIG Lawsuits?
Lawsuits against CFIs, clubs and FBOs do indeed happen.
Insurance can only cover you to some degree, but to get coverage for the amounts awarded, the cost would be prohibitive. I am neither a lawyer or insurance salesman, but I believe our only defense, and probably the absolute best defense, is to ensure we fulfill all of the specific and implied rules and regulations specified by the FARs, PTS, advisory circulars, as well as the common standards established by industry. As it turns out, it is not difficult. The references are reasonably clear. Our school / gliderport has been in business for 38 years and as we near retirement, our assetts have grown so we become more of a target should we do it wrong. We have developed widely acclaimed text books, instructor manuals and a thorough glider pilot logbook and other training materials that absolutly fulfill all the flight training requirements. We use lesson plans that are complete, and document flight training using a series of written tests that prove each student has the knowledge and skills implied by the regulations. To do otherwise would be foolish. There are materials out there that simply fail to meet the necessary standards. It is clear not all instructors make an effort to teach to the accepted standards. Organizations and individuals have developed their own flight training techniques and methods. Some of the non-standard, uncommon methods can subject the instructors, schools and clubs to a higher risk should something happen. Tom Knauff |
#8
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CFIG Lawsuits?
Tom,
you say that CFIG lawsuits 'do indeed happen'. Can you point us in a direction or contact for a specific individual who would have details of such a lawsuit? BTW, admire you attitude and efforts. |
#9
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CFIG Lawsuits?
Noel,
I have had a CFI for 30+ years. (The CFI-G for only a few.) I keep it current, but do not actively instruct. This paranoia is nothing new, and mostly a head game. When I got my CFI in the mid 1970s, an instructor advised me to sign someone "ok to solo" in different aircraft, rather than "checkout complete". Evidently someone augered in doing crosswind landings and didn't have that maneuever specifically signed off in logbook during the "checkout complete" checkout. Personally, I think its over the top. As someone mentioned, use the PTS, and in the student's logbook endorse the maneuvers that you completed. If you are doing following FARs you are not going to get sued. Obviously, file a NASA report if you had an incident of some sort(e.g. possible airspace violation). Being a member of AOPA would be a good idea. I wish SSA teamed up with AOPA-there is strength in numbers and general aviation needs the boost. Did you have fun with your DG this summer? Dean |
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