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#1
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
I was sitting on a Mississippi River levee this evening, eating a big piece
of home-made pecan pie, watching a tugboat struggle against the current, and pondering life. We had flown here in Atlas, our Cherokee Pathfinder -- a flight that took a whopping twenty minutes. We'd made the flight a hundred times, over the last eleven years -- it's out default "rather-go-somewhere-than-fly-the-pattern" flight -- but every now and then something made it different. Tonight was different. We had flown there as a flight of two, with close friends. They had brought their baby and toddler with them, while we had flown with our daughter, who has been flying with us since birth. The evening was sublime, with the sun a low, glowing orb in the sky. The flight had been wondrous. Instead of eating dinner, we had decided to pick up homemade pies from a favorite restaurant, milk from a convenience store, and take everything down to a riverside park. It was decadent and unhealthy, and the kids loved it. So, I sat, eating pecan pie, watching the river flow by, watching the kids play...and my thoughts turned strangely to the folks on this newsgroup. Memories of all the great folks who have taught me so much, all the people who have shared their flying experiences here...and all the folks who have so recently brought this great group to its knees. As I watched the great river roll by, at the end of gorgeous, late-spring flight, eating home-made pecan pie with family and friends, I thought of the trolls who have done such damage here, and was overwhelmed with sadness for them. I realized that these folks would never, ever, feel the joy of flying over a late spring landscape, of watching the sun low over the Mississippi River. They would never know what it's like to push the throttle forward and feel the acceleration pushing you back in your seat, of the wheels getting light right before the wings take over and the plane arks strongly into a crystal clear sky. Later, as I banked over that big river, so different looking from up here, the water fowl scattering far below, thoughts of this group faded to insignificance, as they should. Touching down lightly back in Iowa City, however, taxiing past the Ercoupe that we've offered to buy, pushing the plane back into the hangar, I realized that these trolls, these wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic. They spend endless hours here, talking about things they'll never know, asking questions they don't want answered, sniping, hating, filling their days with pointless personal attacks, and -- worst of all -- drowning out and discouraging all the good people here. Something's got to change. Aviation is a tiny, ever-shrinking group, with diminishing political clout and threats on all sides. This group has, in the past, represented the best of the piloting community, and we simply can't waste any more of our time tussling with trolls and malcontents. Ignore 'em, kill file 'em, do what you gotta do -- but do NOT engage them. Take the high road, please -- we've simply got to fix this! -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#2
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
Oh what the heck, I'll take the bait... Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight... Then only a tiny fraction of the population was a pilot... Today (up till now) about the same percentage of the population are pilots as are physicians, as are ham radio operators, and some others - in other words a small percentage... Dunno about the docs, but pilots are a shrinking percentage... Now we can all rattle off the likely causes - Draconian FAA enforcement of even minor infractions of those invisible walls in the sky, nonsensical but dangerous and intrusive HSA security regulations that seem to multiply daily, rapidly rising cost of insurance, of hangars, of parts, of maintenance, and of course - of gasoline... I looked at the cost of gas at Washington National, they didn't have any but the jet fuel was nearly $8 a gallon! Chatted with a CFI at my home field yesterday... He has two regular planes for rental and instruction... He also has an LSA (don't know the model)... I asked how the LSA was going... He said it was bad... When I asked why, he commented that the many prospective students for trianing, and especially for the LSA, can't pass a medical and/or security check for the instruction phase... That the biggest reasons are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those offenses is... denny |
#3
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
On Thu, 22 May 2008 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Denny
wrote: are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those offenses is... denny denny is that a bad thing? drugs damage brains, often permanently. do you really want that in the air with you? I dont. I'm never in favour of an exclusive environment in aviation but it is an environment where death stalks the stupid. there are levels of knowledge and skill that must be met by participants in the environment if they are to live to retirement. they have to reach competence. Stealth Pilot |
#4
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
Denny,
rapidly rising cost of insurance, of hangars, of parts, of maintenance, and of course - of gasoline... I don't buy that. Best selling airplane for years: Cirrus SR22. That's their offering with the BIG, gas-guzzling engine, not the smaller SR20. People don't care (enough). -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#5
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
I don't buy that. Best selling airplane for years: Cirrus SR22. That's
their offering with the BIG, gas-guzzling engine, not the smaller SR20. People don't care (enough). I think that's finally changing. Cirrus' sales numbers are way down, as is the used aircraft market for big-bore pistons. Funny how spending $300 to fill your tanks changes your perspective on things. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#6
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not
flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight... Yep, it's already happening. Our flight of two last night represented the only aircraft flying at Muscatine Muni, on a picture-perfect gorgeous spring evening. Iowa City was somewhat busier, with four of us arriving in the pattern at sunset, but that's always a good time to watch traffic, with everyone trying to get down before darkness sets in. It's getting harder to enjoy the warm afterglow of a flight well-done. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#7
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
"Jay Honeck" wrote...
Had this conversation recently with a patient who is a pilot but not flying due to money issues... I floated the thought that we are headed back to the 30's where airplanes (real airplanes, not self loading cattle haulers) will be an unusual sight... Yep, it's already happening. Our flight of two last night represented the only aircraft flying at Muscatine Muni, on a picture-perfect gorgeous spring evening. Iowa City was somewhat busier, with four of us arriving in the pattern at sunset, but that's always a good time to watch traffic, with everyone trying to get down before darkness sets in. It's getting harder to enjoy the warm afterglow of a flight well-done. Our home base is starting to look like a ghost town. The ramp used to be brimming with aircraft and it's so sparsely populated now it's actually depressing. BDS |
#8
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
On May 22, 12:50*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
I realized that these trolls, these wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic. Trolls always are. But then, we've always had them, for as long as there has been usenet. They never mattered much. Something's got to change. Something already has. Just not for the better. Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a time when usenet was different. There was a time when we all posted with our real names. Now, the only ones who can safely do so are the retired and self-employed, those still in school, and those lucky few who work for sparklingly sane organizations where a complaint that you are posting to usenet during working hours can't possibly get any traction. There was a time when making a complaint like that against another poster was unthinkable - and then came the era of the fish, and even those who could not see the writing on the wall before went anonymous. There was a time when conversations were mostly worthwhile here. People might be wrong, but they were generally not grossly ignorant or stupid. There might be heated debate, but it was debate, not name- calling. It's not that trolling, flaming, and other such stupidity didn't happen - it did - but it was far more rare, and generally done with more style. So what changed? It used to be that there was a barrier to entry. If you wanted to access usenet, you needed to be able to handle a shell account - unix, VMS, something. You needed to make an effort - because there were not commercials all over the place for internet access. There was a self- selection process, and it selected for those who were comfortable with computers - and thus with a more logical, less emotional style of thinking and communicating. This is absolutely essential to a usenet discussion. In real life discussion, we have limits on how nasty a discussion can get. There are time limits - discussions can't usually drag on for hours, never mind days. There are participant limits - you can't really have an unmoderated discussion with more than a few people. There are personal limits - at some point, you risk getting punched in the face, but long before you get to that point, there will be body language telling you to back off. Threre are limits to what you can claim - everyone has met you and knows who you are. Finally, there is the basic limit - if someone is a pain, you can just not invite him again. All this is lacking in usenet, and the only way to compensate is a certain detachment and formalism - which is normal for interacting with a computer anyway. I am, of course, dating myself when I say this. These days, most people don't really interact with a computer - they're not using it to write code, analyze data, etc. They're using it as mostly a communication tool - think email, word processing, web, presentation. It's mostly just a way of interacting with other people. Even the games have gone that way - most of the popular ones are massively multiplayer. But it wasn't like that back then. This imposed a certain rigor on the discussion. You were typing into a computer, so you were less likely to type a poorly considered, emotional argument. You knew that a computer didn't care what credentials you held, so you didn't expect your credentials to impress anyone on the other side of the screen and knew that what you wrote would have to stand on its own merits. You knew that what you said would have to be well thought out, internally consistent, logical - or it would be rejected (as an error by a machine, and by ridicule on usenet) - and so you tried to think things through logically and eliminate inconsistency. That's gone now, and without that, usenet discussion can't survive. Of course there was always the exception. In September, the new college students would show up and get accounts on the university computers. Most were not used to using computers. Many would find usenet. Most would quickly discover that it wasn't their cup of tea. They discovered that if they weren't interested in participating in a logical, civil discussion of the topic at hand, they were in the minority and could expect to be ridiculed. Most disappeared. A few stayed, and became part of the usenet community. And then AOL opened the floodgates - all you needed was an AOL account with it's point-and-click interface, and you could access usenet. That was the September that never ended. It's been downhill ever since. The degeneration of this particular (aviation) usenet hierarchy has little or nothing to do with the declining number of pilots. Check the scuba and skydiving hierarchies - they are in far worse shape, and their numbers are growing, not shrinking and aging like ours. Most of the people I know who were serious contributors to the aviation groups and have since mostly faded out are still quite active in aviation. They are flying, building, fixing, and restoring aircraft. I know I am. They have not dropped out of aviation, but usenet - and you can't even pinpoint when it happened. Every once in a while, someone will announce - generally by starting a new thread with that topic - that he is leaving the group. It never really works that way. When someone does that, you can be sure he'll be back. People don't leave with a bang, but with a whimper. You will have a regular and prolific contributor that seems to be less regular, less prolific. Weeks, sometimes months pass by without a post - and then the posts are few and far between, and eventually you realize that he's not a regular anymore - he drops by every once in a while, but mostly he is gone. Usenet was once a place where you could have a higher quality of discussion than you could at the local pilot's lounge in the airport - the limited access assured that the people here were brighter than average. But that barrier to entry is long gone, and the people who preceded that barrier are mostly gone too. Now this is just like the local pilot's lounge - only with all the problems that the lack of non- written communication, the remoteness, the open access, and the effective anonymity causes. Thus, mostly not worth it. Just something to do when you can't make it out to the airport and hang out at the pilot's lounge. And thus the appeal to the has-beens and never- were's. Those still active in GA have mostly moved on. Michael |
#9
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
Wow..
Lots of words Michael, all of them good..Thanks for posting... I was going to post as well, but I will be lazy and say "DITTO" SOME of us still use usenet as we were having a conversation face to face.. I just MIGHT have the chance to meet some of you some day, (I would LOVE to see Jay's Inn.., and if Iam ever close enough, I will ! ) So it may happen, and I don't want to have to duck... Cheers! Dave On Thu, 22 May 2008 06:49:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote: On May 22, 12:50*am, "Jay Honeck" wrote: I realized that these trolls, these wannabe pilots and former pilots, are quite simply pathetic. Trolls always are. But then, we've always had them, for as long as there has been usenet. They never mattered much. Something's got to change. Something already has. Just not for the better. Jay, I remember when you showed up here. Things were already well on their way downhill - all that kept us going was inertia. There was a time when usenet was different. There was a time when we all posted with our real names. Now, the only ones who can safely do so are the retired and self-employed, those still in school, and those lucky few who work for sparklingly sane organizations where a complaint that you are posting to usenet during working hours can't possibly get any traction. There was a time when making a complaint like that against another poster was unthinkable - and then came the era of the fish, and even those who could not see the writing on the wall before went anonymous. There was a time when conversations were mostly worthwhile here. People might be wrong, but they were generally not grossly ignorant or stupid. There might be heated debate, but it was debate, not name- calling. It's not that trolling, flaming, and other such stupidity didn't happen - it did - but it was far more rare, and generally done with more style. So what changed? It used to be that there was a barrier to entry. If you wanted to access usenet, you needed to be able to handle a shell account - unix, VMS, something. You needed to make an effort - because there were not commercials all over the place for internet access. There was a self- selection process, and it selected for those who were comfortable with computers - and thus with a more logical, less emotional style of thinking and communicating. This is absolutely essential to a usenet discussion. In real life discussion, we have limits on how nasty a discussion can get. There are time limits - discussions can't usually drag on for hours, never mind days. There are participant limits - you can't really have an unmoderated discussion with more than a few people. There are personal limits - at some point, you risk getting punched in the face, but long before you get to that point, there will be body language telling you to back off. Threre are limits to what you can claim - everyone has met you and knows who you are. Finally, there is the basic limit - if someone is a pain, you can just not invite him again. All this is lacking in usenet, and the only way to compensate is a certain detachment and formalism - which is normal for interacting with a computer anyway. I am, of course, dating myself when I say this. These days, most people don't really interact with a computer - they're not using it to write code, analyze data, etc. They're using it as mostly a communication tool - think email, word processing, web, presentation. It's mostly just a way of interacting with other people. Even the games have gone that way - most of the popular ones are massively multiplayer. But it wasn't like that back then. This imposed a certain rigor on the discussion. You were typing into a computer, so you were less likely to type a poorly considered, emotional argument. You knew that a computer didn't care what credentials you held, so you didn't expect your credentials to impress anyone on the other side of the screen and knew that what you wrote would have to stand on its own merits. You knew that what you said would have to be well thought out, internally consistent, logical - or it would be rejected (as an error by a machine, and by ridicule on usenet) - and so you tried to think things through logically and eliminate inconsistency. That's gone now, and without that, usenet discussion can't survive. Of course there was always the exception. In September, the new college students would show up and get accounts on the university computers. Most were not used to using computers. Many would find usenet. Most would quickly discover that it wasn't their cup of tea. They discovered that if they weren't interested in participating in a logical, civil discussion of the topic at hand, they were in the minority and could expect to be ridiculed. Most disappeared. A few stayed, and became part of the usenet community. And then AOL opened the floodgates - all you needed was an AOL account with it's point-and-click interface, and you could access usenet. That was the September that never ended. It's been downhill ever since. The degeneration of this particular (aviation) usenet hierarchy has little or nothing to do with the declining number of pilots. Check the scuba and skydiving hierarchies - they are in far worse shape, and their numbers are growing, not shrinking and aging like ours. Most of the people I know who were serious contributors to the aviation groups and have since mostly faded out are still quite active in aviation. They are flying, building, fixing, and restoring aircraft. I know I am. They have not dropped out of aviation, but usenet - and you can't even pinpoint when it happened. Every once in a while, someone will announce - generally by starting a new thread with that topic - that he is leaving the group. It never really works that way. When someone does that, you can be sure he'll be back. People don't leave with a bang, but with a whimper. You will have a regular and prolific contributor that seems to be less regular, less prolific. Weeks, sometimes months pass by without a post - and then the posts are few and far between, and eventually you realize that he's not a regular anymore - he drops by every once in a while, but mostly he is gone. Usenet was once a place where you could have a higher quality of discussion than you could at the local pilot's lounge in the airport - the limited access assured that the people here were brighter than average. But that barrier to entry is long gone, and the people who preceded that barrier are mostly gone too. Now this is just like the local pilot's lounge - only with all the problems that the lack of non- written communication, the remoteness, the open access, and the effective anonymity causes. Thus, mostly not worth it. Just something to do when you can't make it out to the airport and hang out at the pilot's lounge. And thus the appeal to the has-beens and never- were's. Those still active in GA have mostly moved on. Michael |
#10
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Thoughts on a beautiful spring evening...
I think Denny's point was... not wanting to put words into the OP mouth, but
to take a different reading. The youth destroy their life with drugs.. before they realize what they have done to their future. BT "Stealth Pilot" wrote in message ... On Thu, 22 May 2008 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT), Denny wrote: are DUI and drug convictions... He says that the vast majority of younger people out there do not understand that a drug bust permanently ends their chances of getting any kind of a security clearance, including an airmans medical certificate... That was a new thought for me... Even though I deal with drug and alcohol issues daily I didn't realize how pervasive the criminal record for those offenses is... denny denny is that a bad thing? drugs damage brains, often permanently. do you really want that in the air with you? I dont. I'm never in favour of an exclusive environment in aviation but it is an environment where death stalks the stupid. there are levels of knowledge and skill that must be met by participants in the environment if they are to live to retirement. they have to reach competence. Stealth Pilot |
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