A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

contest corner



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 22nd 09, 11:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default contest corner

The "contest corner" is back -- I'll be writing more regularly for
Soaring once again. For all those hard-core fans who can't wait for
the print version, they will be up on my webpage. A new article on MAT
tasking is up now,

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...Papers/#corner

John Cochrane
  #2  
Old December 22nd 09, 11:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
mattm[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default contest corner

On Dec 22, 6:10*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
The "contest corner" is back -- I'll be writing more regularly for
Soaring once again. For all those hard-core fans who can't wait for
the print version, they will be up on my webpage. A new article on MAT
tasking is up now,

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...Papers/#corner

John Cochrane


Good article. The last MAT I flew was like that -- 2008 Sports Class
at Perry.
We had 3 turnpoints assigned with 1.5 hr min (it was a late starting
day).
Most of the finishers were able to make all three plus one. One
finisher
made just the first TP and returned, to beat minimum distance by 500
feet.
A few even landed out. All in all it was a really fun flight; I saw
lots of other
gliders on course all the way around.

-- Matt
  #3  
Old December 23rd 09, 08:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Rick Culbertson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default contest corner

On Dec 22, 4:10*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
The "contest corner" is back -- I'll be writing more regularly for
Soaring once again. For all those hard-core fans who can't wait for
the print version, they will be up on my webpage. A new article on MAT
tasking is up now,

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...Papers/#corner

John Cochrane


Great article John, thanks.

As one of the guys who really does look forward to the mano y mano
racing style of an AT, but alas, we’re lucky if one AT is called
during any give contest. Yes, I too find myself guilty of very quietly
groaning under my breath (you can’t let the other pilots know) when a
MAT with one assign TP is called. So I do hope the 2010 CDs are
listening (I know Coggins is) at least where FAI classes are
concerned, the “long MAT” suggestion sounds like a great idea!

I eagerly look forward reading many more of your very entertaining and
informative articles.
21
  #4  
Old December 25th 09, 11:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 261
Default contest corner

On Dec 23, 12:32*pm, Rick Culbertson wrote:
Yes, I too find myself guilty of very quietly
groaning under my breath (you can’t let the other pilots know) when a
MAT with one assign TP is called.


They know now Rick - they're watching you. ;-)

In all honesty I kind of like the MAT with no assigned turns (I like
variety so it's not to the exclusion of the AST or any other task). I
enjoy predicting the weather on the fly. The problem on really dodgy
days is that it can totally scramble the standings because things get
UN-predictable. These days tend to favor the bold - the pilot who
decides to "get out of Dodge" and racks up some miles going to some
far corner of the task area following the best weather. Some of my
most enjoyable contest flights have been these types.

Here's another idea: A MAT with a couple of turns at the start and a
couple of turns at the end to line everybody up again. Maybe 1/2 to
2/3 of the nominal task is assigned. Call it the "donut hole MAT", or
the "leech scraper MAT". You're not head's down with the computer all
day but you do have to make one significant weather call in the middle
of the flight and you break up the gaggles. The slowest pilots in the
pack might make no additional turns. You wouldn't want to make the
final couple of legs too long because it would make estimating arrival
time hard, but long enough that they weren't just final glide.

9B

  #5  
Old December 26th 09, 03:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JJ Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 388
Default contest corner

Hi Andy,
When I take my turn in the barrel and CD a contest, I never assign a
final turn. Why? Because I won't call a MAT in the first place unless
conditions are unpredictable to the point I can't say for sure just
where to send them. I always try to assign the first point so that
everybody must start making decisions at the same place. Only at 3:00
PM will I call a MAT with no mandatory turns, but to make them all hit
a final turn or two, late in the day with no idea what the conditions
will be is something I don't like. The final point in a TAT is bad
enough under unpredictable conditions, but at least you have a large
hunk of sky to get in that last fix before heading home. I have seen
MAT's with 2 first turns assigned and the pilot must decide which one
to use before calling his own. Bad idea. Choose right and your a hero,
choose wrong and you could end up being a zero. I do like calling a
whole bunch of turns, so many that some wont be able to do them all
and will be forced to quit and head home when their time's up. Call it
JJ's AT, a way to call an assigned task in sports class.
Happy, Happy
JJ

Andy wrote:
On Dec 23, 12:32*pm, Rick Culbertson wrote:
Yes, I too find myself guilty of very quietly
groaning under my breath (you can’t let the other pilots know) when a
MAT with one assign TP is called.


They know now Rick - they're watching you. ;-)

In all honesty I kind of like the MAT with no assigned turns (I like
variety so it's not to the exclusion of the AST or any other task). I
enjoy predicting the weather on the fly. The problem on really dodgy
days is that it can totally scramble the standings because things get
UN-predictable. These days tend to favor the bold - the pilot who
decides to "get out of Dodge" and racks up some miles going to some
far corner of the task area following the best weather. Some of my
most enjoyable contest flights have been these types.

Here's another idea: A MAT with a couple of turns at the start and a
couple of turns at the end to line everybody up again. Maybe 1/2 to
2/3 of the nominal task is assigned. Call it the "donut hole MAT", or
the "leech scraper MAT". You're not head's down with the computer all
day but you do have to make one significant weather call in the middle
of the flight and you break up the gaggles. The slowest pilots in the
pack might make no additional turns. You wouldn't want to make the
final couple of legs too long because it would make estimating arrival
time hard, but long enough that they weren't just final glide.

9B

  #6  
Old December 26th 09, 03:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default contest corner

We had a MAT with a final turn called last year at Bermuda High. It
was a weak day, and the terrain between the field and the last
turnpoint was not very landable. Turned out to be a bit hair-raising.

TA

  #7  
Old December 26th 09, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default contest corner

One good use for final turn is a "steering" turn to make sure everyone
approaches the airport from the same direction.

This is particularly useful if there is a finish line rather than
cylinder. That use worked well at Uvalde in 08.

(I'd also like to see upwind final legs, so we don't have rolling
finishes head on to flying finishes.)

Frank's post suggests another use. It would be a good way to make sure
everyone approaches the airport from the "landable" side. Many
airports are next to towns. Putting in a required last point on the
other side from the town would save us scary low glides over
buildings.

I'm glad to see we're getting creative!

John Cochrane BB
  #8  
Old December 26th 09, 06:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default contest corner

JJ Sinclair wrote:
I do like calling a
whole bunch of turns, so many that some wont be able to do them all
and will be forced to quit and head home when their time's up. Call it
JJ's AT, a way to call an assigned task in sports class.
Happy, Happy
JJ

I don't fly contests anymore, but I would have enjoyed Sports Class a
lot more with JJ running it! I preferred AT much more than the Sports
Class "do your own thing" task, because DYOT is what I did when I wasn't
flying a contest. I liked contest flying much more when the AT was the
standard, because it was _different_ from my usual flying. Why put up
with the hassle and cost of a contest to do exactly what I always do?

Eventually (after 28 years), I quit contest flying because it was
interfering with my soaring.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
  #9  
Old December 26th 09, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 261
Default contest corner

On Dec 26, 7:16*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Hi Andy,
When I take my turn in the barrel and CD a contest, I never assign a
final turn. Why? Because I won't call a MAT in the first place unless
conditions are unpredictable to the point I can't say for sure just
where to send them. I always try to assign the first point so that
everybody must start making decisions at the same place. Only at 3:00
PM will I call a MAT with no mandatory turns, but to make them all hit
a final turn or two, late in the day with no idea what the conditions
will be is something I don't like. The final point in a TAT is bad
enough under unpredictable conditions, but at least you have a large
hunk of sky to get in that last fix before heading home. I have seen
MAT's with 2 first turns assigned and the pilot must decide which one
to use before calling his own. Bad idea. Choose right and your a hero,
choose wrong *and you could end up being a zero. I do like calling a
whole bunch of turns, so many that some wont be able to do them all
and will be forced to quit and head home when their time's up. Call it
JJ's AT, a way to *call an assigned task in sports class.
Happy, Happy
JJ


HoHoHo to you too JJ.

I've seen the MAT used this way only once and it worked well. In my
opinion it requires the same kind of weather as an AST - that is,
fairly predictable. I wouldn't be inclined to assign a lot of
turnpoints on a day with a lot of OD forecast, for instance. I do
think you could assign a "donut hole" MAT on a day with good
conditions and decent cu as thermal markers - the opposite of a
leeching day (no cu). That way you put pilots' weather-judging skills
to the test.

For better or worse the MAT has been reduced to the "crap shoot" task
when the weather is really dodgy, which I think is quite often the
only reasonable call - as you point out. I'm just wondering whether we
could find interesting ways to use the MAT on good days too - and
maybe remake its reputation a bit.

Is there anyone else out there who actually likes the idea of picking
turnpoints? I think there is quite a bit of skill in choosing where to
go. Do people think that's not racing? Maybe I'm all alone on this
one...

9B
  #10  
Old December 26th 09, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,610
Default contest corner

On Dec 22, 6:10*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
The "contest corner" is back -- I'll be writing more regularly for
Soaring once again. For all those hard-core fans who can't wait for
the print version, they will be up on my webpage. A new article on MAT
tasking is up now,

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john...Papers/#corner

John Cochrane


Thanks John for the article.
Better yet: Bring back Free Distance !
OK, OK, I'll settle for Cat's Cradle.

I'm off to watch my new copy of Sunship Game now.
See ya, Dave "YO electric"
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coffin corner No Name Aviation Photos 0 March 16th 08 10:24 PM
contest corner -- start anywhere BB Soaring 11 January 31st 08 09:39 PM
contest corner -- Soaring Magazine BB Soaring 8 February 15th 07 04:36 AM
Safety Corner-Nov/issue snoop Soaring 17 November 12th 06 10:13 PM
VNE and the "coffin corner"? Jim Soaring 13 December 17th 03 06:07 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.