Is this legal for a private pilot?

I'm an instrument rated private pilot. My CFI was going to fly with
one of his student pilots to an airport an hour away to go to the
student's vacation home, providing instruction along the way. Then he
would leave the student there for a couple days, and return to pick the
student up.

Now the CFI can't make it and wants to know if I will make the trip
instead. I would pay for half the flight expenses and of course be PIC
for both flights. Is this legal?

"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm an instrument rated private pilot. My CFI was going to fly with
one of his student pilots to an airport an hour away to go to the
student's vacation home, providing instruction along the way. Then he
would leave the student there for a couple days, and return to pick the
student up.

Now the CFI can't make it and wants to know if I will make the trip
instead. I would pay for half the flight expenses and of course be PIC
for both flights. Is this legal?

It sounds doubtful; you'd essentially be providing air taxi services to
someone you don't know.

If it were legal, though, the passenger could only pay for half of the
portion of the flight that the passenger was on board for (hence just a
fourth of the round trip).

--Gary

Just go buy a bag of Planter's Peanuts. Make sure he ask if there is any
inflight food, and charge him $200 for the bag of peanuts.

A guy I know that works for the FAA told me thats how you get around this
kind of thing.

There was a big discussion about this in one of these groups. I asked him
about the legalities, and thats what he said.

I still think the best thing is to not talk about it.

Dave

"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm an instrument rated private pilot. My CFI was going to fly with
one of his student pilots to an airport an hour away to go to the
student's vacation home, providing instruction along the way. Then he
would leave the student there for a couple days, and return to pick the
student up.

Now the CFI can't make it and wants to know if I will make the trip
instead. I would pay for half the flight expenses and of course be PIC
for both flights. Is this legal?

"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
[...]
Now the CFI can't make it and wants to know if I will make the trip
instead. I would pay for half the flight expenses and of course be PIC
for both flights. Is this legal?

IMHO, no. Even though you are meeting the "pro-rata" requirement, you would
be violating the "common purpose" case law. Personally, I think
requirements should all be found in the FARs themselves, but that's just not
how things work. The fact that you would not otherwise be making the trip
is what the FAA would complain about.

I am assuming that by "half the flight expenses", you mean for the portion
when the student pilot is in the airplane, and that for the other two legs
(when you are by yourself) you would pay 100% of the expenses. Being
reimbursed at all for the legs you were alone would be an obvious violation
of even the written FAR.

That said, unless your pilot certificate reads "Yossarian", it seems
unlikely anyone would be concerned at all. (And if it does read
"Yossarian", either your parents had a cynical expectation for your life, or
a strange sense of humor ).

Pete

Gary Drescher wrote:
"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm an instrument rated private pilot. My CFI was going to fly with
one of his student pilots to an airport an hour away to go to the
student's vacation home, providing instruction along the way. Then he
would leave the student there for a couple days, and return to pick the
student up.

Now the CFI can't make it and wants to know if I will make the trip
instead. I would pay for half the flight expenses and of course be PIC
for both flights. Is this legal?

It sounds doubtful; you'd essentially be providing air taxi services to
someone you don't know.


Would it also be considered air taxi for the CFI?

"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Would it also be considered air taxi for the CFI?

The CFI has other aspects in his favor: previous relationship with the
student, for one (can avoid an accusation of "holding out"), as well as the
expectation that the CFI will be along for flights they would not have
already made without the student (so the requirement for "common purpose"
isn't so clearly needed).

Of course, in many cases the CFI is working for a flight school that also
operates an on-demand Part 135 business, and the CFI may be a pilot for that
operation. Don't know if that's the case here, but that can avoid all hint
of problems if it is.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

Don'tÂ*knowÂ*ifÂ*that'sÂ*theÂ*caseÂ*here,Â*butÂ*th atÂ*canÂ*avoidÂ*allÂ*hint
of problems if it is.

Isn't there a requirement on the airplane itself for a 135 operation? Or
can a school that happens to also have a 135 business fly any of the school
planes as "air taxis" should the opportunity arise?

- Andrew

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Yossarian" wrote in message
oups.com...
Would it also be considered air taxi for the CFI?

The CFI has other aspects in his favor: previous relationship with the
student, for one (can avoid an accusation of "holding out"), as well as
the expectation that the CFI will be along for flights they would not have
already made without the student (so the requirement for "common purpose"
isn't so clearly needed).

Or to put it another way, instruction during the flight *is* a common
purpose for the flight (even if transporting the student is an additional,
non-common purpose).

--Gary

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Isn't there a requirement on the airplane itself for a 135 operation?

Yes. However, a flight school operating a Part 135 operation will have some
or all of their fleet certified for the Part 135 operation. Presumably, if
the CFI was using the Part 135 operation as a legal safety net, he'd make
sure they took one of the Part 135 planes.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:07:18 -0400, Andrew Gideon
wrote:

Peter Duniho wrote:

Don't*know*if*that's*the*case*here,*but*that*can*a void*all*hint
of problems if it is.

Isn't there a requirement on the airplane itself for a 135 operation? Or
can a school that happens to also have a 135 business fly any of the school
planes as "air taxis" should the opportunity arise?

- Andrew

A Pt 135 operating certificate typically lists specific aircraft
make(s)/model(s), with pertinent operating and maintenance
documentation for same. It does not list aircraft by "N" number.

If an aircraft is equipped and maintained to Pt 135 standards,
operated by a properly certificated crew, it can be used as an "air
taxi".

The difference between Pt 91 and Pt 135 maintenance on a typical
single trainer is relatively minimal (100 hr inspections, mandatory
TBO times on engine/propeller/safety equipment), so it is not uncommon
for a small 135 operation to have rental/training aircraft on it's
operating certificate.

TC