ILS question

I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?

"Chris Brooks" wrote in message
...
I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?


Assuming you were established on the localizer and were receiving vectors
to final, at 17 nm out you were 10 nm from NOLIN and you can descend to
4000.

Stan Prevost wrote:

"Chris Brooks" wrote in message
...
I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?


Assuming you were established on the localizer and were receiving vectors
to final, at 17 nm out you were 10 nm from NOLIN and you can descend to
4000.

How do you come up with that?

wrote in message ...


Stan Prevost wrote:

"Chris Brooks" wrote in message
...
I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach
to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the
approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?


Assuming you were established on the localizer and were receiving
vectors
to final, at 17 nm out you were 10 nm from NOLIN and you can descend to
4000.

How do you come up with that?


On the procedure track and in the PT area, within the 10 nm circle, there is
protected airspace at 4000. I don't know what is outside that. If he was
getting VTF, he should have been given an altitude restriction until
established, but he didn't tell us that part. Roy answered the full
procedure case.

Stan Prevost wrote:

wrote in message ...


Stan Prevost wrote:

"Chris Brooks" wrote in message
...
I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach
to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the
approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?


Assuming you were established on the localizer and were receiving
vectors
to final, at 17 nm out you were 10 nm from NOLIN and you can descend to
4000.

How do you come up with that?


On the procedure track and in the PT area, within the 10 nm circle, there is
protected airspace at 4000. I don't know what is outside that. If he was
getting VTF, he should have been given an altitude restriction until
established, but he didn't tell us that part. Roy answered the full
procedure case.

But, it's not a procedure turn, it's a hold-in-lieu of. Where does the
protected airspace begin for a HIL?

I don't think that 10nm circle is a 4000-foot-protected area. The 4000 feet
refers to the hold in lieu of a PT, and there's no distance specified for it
except for the "one minute" which really can't be interpreted as a distance
within which you can descend to 4000 feet. I'd say the only way to properly
descend on the LOC 17 NM out is to intercept the GS and follow it down.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

On the procedure track and in the PT area, within the 10 nm circle, there
is
protected airspace at 4000. I don't know what is outside that. If he was
getting VTF, he should have been given an altitude restriction until
established, but he didn't tell us that part. Roy answered the full
procedure case.

Mick Ruthven wrote:

I don't think that 10nm circle is a 4000-foot-protected area. The 4000 feet
refers to the hold in lieu of a PT, and there's no distance specified for it
except for the "one minute" which really can't be interpreted as a distance
within which you can descend to 4000 feet. I'd say the only way to properly
descend on the LOC 17 NM out is to intercept the GS and follow it down.

That will usually work, but it technically is not legal. The G/S is merely an
additional nav aid until the PFAF. At LAX there have been enforcement
violations for air carriers following the G/S prior to the PFAF. On a really
hot day, the airspace below rises sufficiently that TRACON airspace for the
Ontario area gets compromised unless the DME fixes and baro altitudes are used.

The 10 mile circle isn't protected airspace. It means that the features
within in are drawn to scale.

Iain

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...



On the procedure track and in the PT area, within the 10 nm circle, there
is
protected airspace at 4000. I don't know what is outside that. If he was
getting VTF, he should have been given an altitude restriction until
established, but he didn't tell us that part. Roy answered the full
procedure case.

In article ,
"Chris Brooks" wrote:

I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?

When you're established on a segment of the approach. How were you
navigating? Direct HGR, I'm guessing, in which case notice the "4000 to
Haigs Int" note on the plate. Cross HGR at 5000, descent to 4000
tracking the 089 radial outbound, do the PT at 4000 outside of Haigs,
then step down to 2900 at Haigs inbound.

Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
"Chris Brooks" wrote:

I am training in the maryland area. I was cleared for an ILS approach to
runway 27 at HGR the other day.

Here is a plate:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0406/05114I27.PDF

I was about 17 miles out at 5000 feet when I got cleared for the approach.
My question is, when can I descend to 4000 feet?

Anyone?

When you're established on a segment of the approach. How were you
navigating? Direct HGR, I'm guessing, in which case notice the "4000 to
Haigs Int" note on the plate. Cross HGR at 5000, descent to 4000
tracking the 089 radial outbound, do the PT at 4000 outside of Haigs,
then step down to 2900 at Haigs inbound.

His information is incomplete, but it sounds like a straight-in on an
unpublished extension of the LOC to me, based on "I was about 17 miles out..."