U.K. near-midairs

"Jack" wrote in message
om...
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs
in the second half of last year, safety investigators
said recently, noting that newer models fly at high
altitudes without transponders and are hard to see,
both visually and on radar...."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600


e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm

Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!!

Peter.

Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote:
"Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs

The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is
certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC
in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs
call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd
guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft,
and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it
a near-midair.

In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant
pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more
ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result
in hundreds of deaths...

So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell
how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair
that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach.
I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders
in gliders is a solution looking for a problem.

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

in the second half of last year, safety investigators
said recently, noting that newer models fly at high
altitudes without transponders and are hard to see,
both visually and on radar...."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600


e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm

Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!!

Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider.
These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least
some info...

I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Marc

Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Apr 20, 1986: LS-4 vs. A-7

I've read some others between military and civilian airplanes,
but I haven't found any more glider vs. airplane.

And as far as being on an MTR while there is a NOTAM for its use,
well, I once wandered into an active artillery range too.
When the tree branches started falling off, there was no mystery there.

I'd like to hear about other glider vs. airplane not near an airport,
if others have references...

And thanks to Marc for this one...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:41a77ce7$1@darkstar...
Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a
glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport.

You might want to ask Chip Garner about the A-7 that ate 3 feet of one
of his wings. There have been a few others between airplanes and
gliders, in the US and away from airports...

Apr 20, 1986: LS-4 vs. A-7

I've read some others between military and civilian airplanes,
but I haven't found any more glider vs. airplane.

And as far as being on an MTR while there is a NOTAM for its use,
well, I once wandered into an active artillery range too.
When the tree branches started falling off, there was no mystery there.

I'd like to hear about other glider vs. airplane not near an airport,
if others have references...

And thanks to Marc for this one...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

George Thelen has one, F-4 at an estimated three foot separation. IIRC,
that's what really got him into writing about safety for Soaring.

Frank Whiteley

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote in message
...
(snip)

George Thelen has one, F-4 at an estimated three foot separation. IIRC,
that's what really got him into writing about safety for Soaring.

Frank Whiteley

George is a friend of mine, and I know that story well, and it is believable
and scary. That said, I think that military fighter pilots are not immune
from buzzing gliders:

"Hey Maverick, got the glider at 12:00? Lets wake him up."

Been there, done that (twice, on the receiving end), have the stained
shorts...

Now when one goes by the first thing I think of is "Wingman!"
-Bob

Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan


Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There
was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing
seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The
missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4
at the local AFB.

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:17:14 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:


"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK
that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)?

I don't know for the UK, but there was one in France in 1999.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1999/f-...f-xb990212.pdf

Miraculously nobody was injured, but the result is that another piece of
airspace has been changed from class E to class D.

Stefan


Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There
was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing
seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The
missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4
at the local AFB.

That would be Donn Shearn, in 1975. The F4 was being vectored onto the
COS localizer, slow, nose up, pilot seat cranked down behind the
glareshield, and the pilot never knew he'd hit anything until a ground
crewman ponted to the wheel as he taxied in.

A busload of Air Force officers arrived at BFGP two days later to
investigate, and the first thing they saw was CSA's 1-34, N1171S,
crashing in the trees at the north end. I watched that one too...worst
case of thought processes stopping under pressure you could imagine.
The guy hit thirty feet up a tree a good 200 yards short of the
runway, with at least 3/4 spoiler on.

Anyway, the gubmint finally wrote a check for $94 to replace the wheel
three years later.

rj

Some years ago a pilot was taking his young son for a ride in a 2-32. There
was a BANG and the 2-32 was knocked into a spin. After recovery, nothing
seemed amiss. Later on landing one wing wheel assembly was missing. The
missing wing wheel assembly was found imbedded in the leading edge of an F4
at the local AFB.

Bill Daniels

I was there that day. It was just west of Black Forest Gliderport, 1975
I think. The jet was southbound, letting down into Peterson Field. The
2-32 didn't spin so far as I recall the pilot recounting the event. The
wingtip wheel was found imbedded in the tip tank of the jet.