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Nebo-U new russian antistealth radar
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(B2431) wrote:
From: (Michael Petukhov) Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use? He probably does. The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm) indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles. But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control purposes. Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. True for any sort of precise tracking, mapping and fire control. The big Chain Home and German early warning systems were easy targets. They needed centimeter wavelengths. Especially for airborne use. Size, weight and power consumption become much greater issues. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with millimeter wavelengths if memory serves. I've been out since 12/1992, but I do remember reading about some work on systems operating in the 20 GHz - 40GHz range. | George Ruch | AF, MSgt, ret. |
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In message , George Ruch
writes (B2431) wrote: From: (Michael Petukhov) Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use? He probably does. The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm) indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles. But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control purposes. Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. True for any sort of precise tracking, mapping and fire control. Cape Matapan? The big Chain Home and German early warning systems were easy targets. Chain Home certainly was not. Mike -- M.J.Powell |
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"George Ruch" wrote: The article on the F-117 kill indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles. snippet from the link: "Russian Minister of Defence Igor Sergeyev announced that the stealthiest of the world's aircraft was brough down by two SA-6 surface-to-air missiles. Yugoslav Air Force officials said that the F-117 was also hit by one AAM launched from a MiG fighter aircraft." This is a Venik article from 1999 and as usual has not been updated. The information he used in the article was derived from information supplied to him from Djordje Pavicevic who was a Serb teenager back in 1999. Pavicevic is the guy who claiming to have seen captured F-117 pilots and witnessed the wrecks of a B-52H and been shown images of a downed B-2A. The Russian Defence Minister, quoted in the article, was wrong too about the SA-6 GAINFUL. The Yugoslav military has revealed that the missiles used were SA-3 GOA of the 250th Rocket Brigade. The boosters and the nose cone from the missiles launched that night are on display in the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum. The claim of the MiG fighter came from the Yugoslav Ministry of Information. Yugoslav MiG-29 pilots revealed after the war that they had fired no air-to-air missiles in any encounter and were upset that their combat reports had been altered by groups and individuals in the Yugoslav Ministry of Information. TJ |
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In article ,
George Ruch writes: (B2431) wrote: From: (Michael Petukhov) Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use? He probably does. The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm) indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles. I've got to make a correction, here. The F-117 kill was made by an SA-3 site. This is important. But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control purposes. Which, BTW, is the normal EW/Air Search radar of the SA-3. Really old missiles, like the SA-2 and SA-3 have, oddly enough, an advantage when engaging stealth aircraft. The missiles are Command Guided - all of the tracking, and all of the smarts required to compute the intercept and guide the missile, are on the ground. The missile itself is fairly simple, with an autopilot to keep it pointed right, and a radio receiver to pick up the steering commands sent from the ground. The tracking of the target by the fire control system can also be performed manually, with human operators designating the point that represents teh target. This makes integrating passive tracking, like telescopes or TV cameras (Either normal or LLTV) into the system a lot easier. Humans are also better at picking faint of intermittent targets out of clutter - it's the way our brains are wired. With a well-trained crew, a command guided SAM, using a long-wave radar to let them know that something's there, could pick the airplane visually, and engage that way. Which is pretty much what happened. A more advanced system, with high resolution autotracking radars, and, say, a Semiactive homer in the missiles, isn't going to be able to have enough time to engage. Stealth doesn't mean that it disappears, it menas that the detection ranges are much shorter. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
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In article ,
George Ruch writes: (Peter Stickney) wrote: In article , George Ruch writes: (B2431) wrote: The article on the F-117 kill (http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm) indicates that the kill was from two SA-6 missiles. I've got to make a correction, here. The F-117 kill was made by an SA-3 site. I should have figured that. An SA-6 kill would have needed a lot of luck, esp. once the guidance beam came on. But... The inbound tracking was reportedly accomplished by a 1950's vintage Soviet radar operating in the 165 - 190 cm range (158 - 181 MHZ). Useful for ground-based early warning, but pretty much useless for fire control purposes. Which, BTW, is the normal EW/Air Search radar of the SA-3. Really old missiles, like the SA-2 and SA-3 have, oddly enough, an advantage when engaging stealth aircraft. [much good info snipped] I remember that setup from my old EW days. Add a decent LLTV/IR combination and a decent crew and you'd have a very dangerous package. Yery dangerous indeed. There are times when the unsophisticated system is more effective than the new Gee-Whiz stuff. Of course, system performance of something like an SA-3, SA-2, or Nike-Herc depends a lot more on crew quality, (and quantity, it takes a lot of people to run them), and they can get saturated a lot mroe easily. But it can also take advantage of the pattern recognition wired into the human brain. In the period leading up to Viet Nam, the Navy put a lot of effort into deception jammers. (Repeaters & Track Breakers & such). They consumed less power, and could be made smaller, so you could fit 'em internally, and not sanitize a pylon carrying a pod. (A big issue with the F-8 and early A-4s, 'casue they didn't have a lot of pylons to begin with. And they worked pretty good against our best systems. The only problem is, that when they were put up against the the SA-2's Fan Song radars, after a while, they weren't quite as effective. The manual operators were, with practice, often able to pick out the true targets from the false ones. The Air Force went in more for noise jammers, and these tended to work better in that environment. If you fill the radar's screens with solid noise, there's nothing to pick out. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
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(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (Michael Petukhov) Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use? Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. They needed centimeter wavelengths. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with millimeter wavelengths if memory serves. True. That's why NEBO-U is so important development in the field of radar design. Michael Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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From: (Michael Petukhov)
Date: 1/11/2004 3:13 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: (B2431) wrote in message ... From: (Michael Petukhov) Date: 1/10/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. Meter wavelengths? You mean the same ones com/nav radios use? Both the Germans and Brits realized that stuff was near useless in WW2. They needed centimeter wavelengths. About 15 years ago the U.S. was playing with millimeter wavelengths if memory serves. True. That's why NEBO-U is so important development in the field of radar design. Michael Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired yawn Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
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"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" wrote in message .net... "--= Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí =--" wrote in message ... A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, BOB URZ "sound wrote: RuAF have received first 10 new NEBO-U long range antistealth radars working in the range of meter's waves. It was designed in Nizhniy Novgorod Scientific Research Institute of Radio Engineering (NNIIRT). Leading specialists NNIIRT which is headed by the designer, Aleksandr Zachepitskiy, have received a State prize for the creation of the three-dimensional "Nebo-U" radar with a digital phased antenna array, the Privolzh'e Novoe Telegrafnoe Agenstvo is reporting. The radar is an automated complex which provides all weather control of the airspace at a range of several hundred kilometers. The "Nebo-U" is able to detect small-size and barely visible targets, including also those built using Stealth Technology. Michael So, how did they test it so they know it works? Buy a B2 and F-117 off of Ebay? No, they got their own free sample to play with from Yugoslavia. Not that they really needed it to develop the radar. http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm http://www.serbnews.com/vk.html Not to mention the fact that stealth designs evolved from original work done by Russian scientists in the first place! Whose rover is on the surface of Mars right now and whose isn't? Check out the NASA or JPL websites to see all of the missions that are currently underway. Russia flys a 1970's Soviet rocket to supply the space station and launches sats for people with hard cash. It's own weather sats, nuke arms verification sats and GPS sats are in horrible shape. When the talk about a new space race was mentioned, Russia never came up. Before you open your big, fat, ignorant mouth and claim the F-177 shootdown is propaganda, the DoD has verified the story: http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/news99/uns99072.htm 20 year old technology at that time. The USAF didn't even bother to go back to blow it up. Russia still doesn't have a stealthy aircraft, neither does Europe or China. Russia is just flying around in warmed over Sukhoi designs. When a Phoenix missile takes out your Sukhoi at 200 miles out and you can't even see where it came from, you'll be saying "I wish I had stealth" just as your parachute opens. Even the super new Eurofighter is about as stealthy as an elephant in a china shop. Maybe that's because it took the Euro-bureaucrats 30 years to build it? While the signature of the Eurofighter isn't as low as that of the much fabled F-22 (do I add the /A as well?), it is considerably lower than any in service aircraft (and many of the planned ones as well). On a slight divergence, how long has it taken for F-22 to get to where it is now? And F-35? I remember the team for the demos for JAST (or whatever its project name was back then) when I was still at school?? And whos computer chips and DSP's are running it? Is there a X86ski? Why don't you take your x86 out of your Wal-Mart PC and read where it's manufactured. See the little letters that say "Malaysia"? Maybe you got one that says Phillipines, or Costa Rica. I think it's called "economics". Funny thing though...they don't say "Made in Russia" on them. You might also want to look at how much foreign stuff is in U$ military equipment these days, you'll probably **** yourself. No Sukhoi's flying over my house. -- --=( Ö§âmâ ßíñ Këñ0ßí )=----- ----- --- - - Rebel Alliance Galactic Usenet News Service --- --- ---=================----------- - - |
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