non-vectored NDB IAF

I was practicing the following NDB-A approach
at F46 (Rockwall -- East of Dallas, TX)

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0409/06323NA.PDF

And asked for the full approach.

Without GPS or vectors what's the best way to get
turned around outbound if I am on a heading of 090
to intercept the NDB IAF? How about if I am
approaching the IAF at a 90 degree intercept angle?

Thanks all,
-Nick

In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:

I was practicing the following NDB-A approach
at F46 (Rockwall -- East of Dallas, TX)

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0409/06323NA.PDF

And asked for the full approach.

Without GPS or vectors what's the best way to get
turned around outbound if I am on a heading of 090
to intercept the NDB IAF?

I would wait until I had station passage at PQF (i.e. the needle
flipped) then begin a right turn to a heading of 060. I would hold 060
heading until you had intercepted the 027 bearing from the NDB, i.e.
until the needle was about 30 degrees off the centerline. Then I would
turn right to 207 (plus or minus a WAG at the required wind direction)
and start tracking outbound for about a minute, then begin my procedure
turn.

When I was all done with the approach, I would tear the damned ADF out
of the panel and install a GPS. :-)

In a previous article, Roy Smith said:
In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0409/06323NA.PDF
turned around outbound if I am on a heading of 090
to intercept the NDB IAF?

I would wait until I had station passage at PQF (i.e. the needle
flipped) then begin a right turn to a heading of 060. I would hold 060
heading until you had intercepted the 027 bearing from the NDB, i.e.

060? Huh? I think 240 would work better.




--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Some days violence is just a nice quick solution to a problem that
would need thought, planning and actual work to do justice to.
-- Wayne Pascoe

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
I would wait until I had station passage at PQF (i.e. the needle
flipped) then begin a right turn to a heading of 060. I would hold 060
heading until you had intercepted the 027 bearing from the NDB, i.e.
until the needle was about 30 degrees off the centerline. Then I would
turn right to 207 (plus or minus a WAG at the required wind direction)
and start tracking outbound for about a minute, then begin my procedure
turn.

Are you seriously suggesting a 330 degree right turn? I'm fairly new at this
IFR stuff, but that seems nuts to me. Why not just turn right to 237 and
wait until you cross the 207 bearing FROM, then proceed outbound at 207 for
another minute?

In article ,
"Jeremy Lew" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
I would wait until I had station passage at PQF (i.e. the needle
flipped) then begin a right turn to a heading of 060. I would hold 060
heading until you had intercepted the 027 bearing from the NDB, i.e.
until the needle was about 30 degrees off the centerline. Then I would
turn right to 207 (plus or minus a WAG at the required wind direction)
and start tracking outbound for about a minute, then begin my procedure
turn.

Are you seriously suggesting a 330 degree right turn? I'm fairly new at this
IFR stuff, but that seems nuts to me. Why not just turn right to 237 and
wait until you cross the 207 bearing FROM, then proceed outbound at 207 for
another minute?

Du-oh! Of course not, I got my headings off by 180 degrees. Right turn
to 240, to intercept the 207 bearing. Sorry about that.

Nicholas Kliewer wrote:

I was practicing the following NDB-A approach
at F46 (Rockwall -- East of Dallas, TX)

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0409/06323NA.PDF

And asked for the full approach.

Without GPS or vectors what's the best way to get
turned around outbound if I am on a heading of 090
to intercept the NDB IAF? How about if I am
approaching the IAF at a 90 degree intercept angle?

Hello.

I would pass NDB than turn right for outbound heading (207) and fly for
a while (let say 2 minutes). After this time make 180 turn for inbound
heading. Probably you will have to turn right (becouse you will be east
of course) but it depends on conditions (eg. wind). Before every
procedure turn look where you are!

I hope it help. If I am wrong- please correct me.

Jarema

Let me join the fray. There is no need whatsoever to intercept the 207
bearing from the NDB and track it outbound, so how about (either heading 090
or 90 degrees to the FAC) turning to 207 plus/minus a wind guess at station
passage, timing a couple of minutes or more, depending on the wind...making
an extended holding pattern, IOW, and turning back to an intercept heading
somewhere between 340 and 000? Makes sense to me. Only those pilots who are
wedded to the 45-180 course reversal would do that much maneuvering.

Understand that if the winds are strong enough to make wind drift a real
problem, with an 8.5 mile final approach segment it might be better to go
somewhere else and forget about Rockwall for the time being.

Bob Gardner

"Nicholas Kliewer" wrote in message
...
I was practicing the following NDB-A approach
at F46 (Rockwall -- East of Dallas, TX)

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0409/06323NA.PDF

And asked for the full approach.

Without GPS or vectors what's the best way to get
turned around outbound if I am on a heading of 090
to intercept the NDB IAF? How about if I am
approaching the IAF at a 90 degree intercept angle?

Thanks all,
-Nick

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message ...

Let me join the fray. There is no need whatsoever to intercept the 207
bearing from the NDB and track it outbound, so how about (either heading 090
or 90 degrees to the FAC) turning to 207 plus/minus a wind guess at station
passage, timing a couple of minutes or more, depending on the wind...making
an extended holding pattern, IOW, and turning back to an intercept heading
somewhere between 340 and 000? Makes sense to me. Only those pilots who are
wedded to the 45-180 course reversal would do that much maneuvering.

I'll second that, especially as there's a published hold just like
that right there, so you should be in protected airspace at all times.

I was taught that the above method is entirely kosher according to the
rules of the road, and as it requires a lot less turning, there's a
lot less work and chance to screw up or get disoriented.

Best,
-cwk.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Let me join the fray. There is no need whatsoever to intercept the 207
bearing from the NDB and track it outbound, so how about (either heading
090
or 90 degrees to the FAC) turning to 207 plus/minus a wind guess at
station
passage, timing a couple of minutes or more, depending on the
wind...making
an extended holding pattern, IOW, and turning back to an intercept heading
somewhere between 340 and 000? Makes sense to me. Only those pilots who
are
wedded to the 45-180 course reversal would do that much maneuvering.

Is an "extended holding pattern" a permitted course reversal for any
approach, or does the hold have to be charted (as it is at PQF, presumably
for the missed approach)?

Julin Scarfe

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:24:25 GMT, "Julian Scarfe"
wrote:

Is an "extended holding pattern" a permitted course reversal for any
approach, or does the hold have to be charted (as it is at PQF, presumably
for the missed approach)?

In the US, on NACO charts, unless the hold is depicted by a procedure
track, the pilot can fly it any which way (AIM5-4-9 a 1).

On Jepp charts the principal is the same, although the conventions are a
bit different.

On the approach in question, the PT is depicted by a 'barb'. The type of
turn would be considered a 'racetrack'.

==================
AIM 5-4-9
a ...
1. On U.S. Government charts, a barbed arrow indicates the
direction or side of the outbound course on which the procedure turn is
made. Headings are provided for course reversal using the 45 degree type
procedure turn. However, the point at which the turn may be commenced and
the type and rate of turn is left to the discretion of the pilot. Some of
the options are the 45 degree procedure turn, the racetrack pattern, the
tear-drop procedure turn, or the 80 degree « 260 degree course reversal.
Some procedure turns are specified by procedural track. These turns must be
flown exactly as depicted.
====================
--ron