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#1
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What if the germans...
had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and
instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused on say two or three fighter designs. For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental improvmeents instead of always running to the next design. Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by a few months? |
#2
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had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and
instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused on say two or three fighter designs. For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental improvmeents instead of always running to the next design. Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by a few months? They should have known what projects are the one's that are going to succeed. What if the jet engine would have been a dead end and no FW-190 or better versions of ME-109 would have not been developed? |
#3
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"tadaa" wrote in message ...
had actually put a U.S. style R&D system in place during WWII, and instead of coming up with (however pretty they look on paper) dozens of designs that never made it beyond wind tunnal designs and focused on say two or three fighter designs. For example, if they'd pushed through the first jet fighter design in 1940 (I forget what it was called), and focused on incremental improvmeents instead of always running to the next design. Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by a few months? They should have known what projects are the one's that are going to succeed. What if the jet engine would have been a dead end and no FW-190 or better versions of ME-109 would have not been developed? You're not thinking like a German nor of the Nazi distrust of rivals that led to duplicity in designs. When the Luftwaffe saw the first jet, the He-178, fly 4 days prior to WW2 they were not impressed. Why should they suddenly produce a tempermental untried machine when they had the Me-109? When the war did start they were winning and all such jet projects were delayed. Again, who needs a jet when you have the Fw-190? As the war situation turned and deteriorated the Germans began to experience round the clock bombing. This in turn led to almost every concievable design proposal from the major aircraft producers, which didn't like each other. Heinkel was despised by the Nazis while Messerschmitt was praised. That's why the He-280 was rejected while the Me-262 was selected instead. And to complicate matters worse, the SS Scientific Branch had their own facilities and unconventional aircraft- disc aircraft that sucked up a lot of manpower and resources. Then came the V-2 in 1944 and all chances for producing 20,000 more fighters desperately needed to fight the increasing air battles was lost. German pilots were not rotated and were forced to fight ever increasing amounts of Allied material superiority in the skies over the Reich. It was a gallant effort but no-win situation. The jet engines then developed lacked better building materials and needed overhauled or were ruined in 20 hrs. Advanced powerplants were years away from proper introduction. Selection of a suitable fighter jet took years as well as Hitler tried to turn all jet fighter aircraft into bombers. And the fighters that did make it into combat had to develop new strategies for fighting the escorts and still manage to destroy the bombers. The answer is No... even with the head start the German system, Hitler, the SS, and engine technology couldn't have delivered anything better sooner. Rob Sorry. |
#4
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Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by
a few months? It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but late,if they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very different. |
#5
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#6
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"Denyav" wrote in message ... Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by a few months? It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but late,if they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very different. On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that would have made any sort of difference. If the European war lasts only a month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August. tim gueguen 101867 |
#7
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In article efqMb.67031$JQ1.43117@pd7tw1no,
"tim gueguen" wrote: "Denyav" wrote in message ... It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but late,if they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very different. On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that would have made any sort of difference. Well, they *were* starting to ramp up production on the He-162, and a couple of months would have given them a thousand or so more fighters (really - the things were pretty darned cheap and easy to make) with a hundred MPH speed advantage. Not good for Allied bombers. Admittedly, they would have lost a *lot* of them due to pilot inexperience (the Germans were deeply short on experienced pilots by that stage of the war, and the He-162 wasn't exactly a cinch to fly well), and a lot more due to materials problems (they never did quite get the hang of good wood glue for their planes), but it would have been a real issue in getting the war over by the end of 1945. If the European war lasts only a month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August. The big tipping point for German fighters was years earlier, when the high command decided to build a lot more prop fighters to fight on the Eastern Front, and put off jets for a while. If they'd waited a year or so, consolidated, and moved in with better equipment and more consolidation, the Russian campaigns would have been much different. This would also have made some big differences in Japan, as well, since the Japanese would have had working jets a year or more faster (from the plans they got from the Germans), which would have given them some serious bomber defenses over the home islands. They were only a couple of months away from ramping up production of their own version of the Me-262. -- cirby at cfl.rr.com Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#8
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"Chad Irby" wrote in message news On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that would have made any sort of difference. Well, they *were* starting to ramp up production on the He-162, and a couple of months would have given them a thousand or so more fighters (really - the things were pretty darned cheap and easy to make) with a hundred MPH speed advantage. Not good for Allied bombers. Admittedly, they would have lost a *lot* of them due to pilot inexperience (the Germans were deeply short on experienced pilots by that stage of the war, and the He-162 wasn't exactly a cinch to fly well), and a lot more due to materials problems (they never did quite get the hang of good wood glue for their planes), but it would have been a real issue in getting the war over by the end of 1945. But as you say they had no pilots and precious little fuel. An earlier German introduction of jet fighters would doubtless have resulted in increased priority for the allied jet fighter production and we'd have seen more Meteors, Vampires etc Keith |
#9
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 05:27:38 GMT, "tim gueguen"
wrote: "Denyav" wrote in message ... Would this have had a major impact on WWII, or just drawn it out by a few months? It would not change anything,actually Germans did many things right but late,if they had more time, a couple months only,the outcome of WWII might be very different. On what basis do you make this claim? I can think of nothing the Germans could have gotten their hands on with just a couple more months of WW2 that would have made any sort of difference. If the European war lasts only a month past mid July 1945 Berlin is nuked sometime in early August. tim gueguen 101867 And the German industry, egven at the end was...screwball. I have books that mention that STRATEGIC bomber projects were still under some form of development in 1944-45. That was long after the time that any intelligently run program would have put everything into fighters. That's the big thing-- there really seems to have been no rhyme or reason to German R&D-- in the U.S. and England there was some over all coordination, insuring that company A. didn't re-invent the same dead end that B, C, and D did...but I've not been able to find anything like that in Germany. |
#10
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That's the big thing-- there really seems to have been no rhyme or
reason to German R&D-- in the U.S. and England there was some over all coordination, insuring that company A. didn't re-invent the same dead end that B, C, and D did...but I've not been able to find anything like that in Germany. At a first glance it looks like that,many organizations and instutitions,including unassuming ones like Post Office,working indepedently for the same R&D effort,but if you dig a little bit more then you see a different picture,all German S projects are under absolute control of SS,more precisely Kammlers SS Advanced weapons directorate,with their own research and production facilities as well as SS controlled facilities in German universities and factories which were off limits for others. Name of Hans Kammler,who was a devoted Nazi and one of the main architects of the "final solution" is still the key to understand what really happened in closing days of WWII. But the name Kammler was a taboo in post WWII world and all documents about him has been put under lock for 75 years by US gov't. I think this fact alone tells something. |
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