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bush: impossible to be AWOL /check TEXAS MILITARY CODE!
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. :He didn't show :up for duty as required, which can be interepreted as AWOL False. r as refusal to obey a direct order, And who do you think issued this "direct order"? I suspect strongly that you don't even know what those two words mean. Do you idiots REALLY believe that this sort of silly lie does anything other than demonstrate YOUR desperation? |
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"Bob" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. snip This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam. CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review. "It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that." The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake. "They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984. Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery. Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said. "I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software. The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974. The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without reporting for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there. That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972. |
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On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:09:41 GMT, "Steve R."
wrote: "Bob" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. snip This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Now I suppose I should post all the links and text of the rebuttals of the rebuttals. |
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Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line "111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the 1930s. The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again. And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the memos is inaccurate. And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to Massachusetts). "Steve R." wrote in message news:9py0d.804$lX.337@trnddc04... "Bob" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. snip This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam. CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review. "It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that." The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake. "They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984. Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery. Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said. "I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software. The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974. The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without reporting for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there. That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972. |
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"Tammy" wrote in message m... Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line "111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the 1930s. The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again. And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the memos is inaccurate. And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to Massachusetts). Hi Tammy, Check out this thread and go for the $10,000 reward if you can duplicate the memos on a machine from that time period! http://defeatjohnjohn.com/2004/09/10...-selectric.htm Regards, Steve |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MANG duty in a non-drilling status?
If so, wouldn't that mean he didn't report to anybody? As for the th's and st's and character spacing, I am forced to go by the myriad of experts and not one of them I have heard says these were common on a "typewriter" in the 30's. Now, I know they were used in typesetting, but on a typewriter? Please provide links to back up your assertions. "Tammy" wrote in message m... Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line "111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the 1930s. The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again. And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the memos is inaccurate. And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to Massachusetts). "Steve R." wrote in message news:9py0d.804$lX.337@trnddc04... "Bob" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. snip This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam. CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review. "It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that." The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake. "They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984. Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery. Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said. "I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software. The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974. The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without reporting for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there. That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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"Theecmo" wrote in message ...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MANG duty in a non-drilling status? If so, wouldn't that mean he didn't report to anybody? As for the th's and st's and character spacing, I am forced to go by the myriad of experts and not one of them I have heard says these were common on a "typewriter" in the 30's. Now, I know they were used in typesetting, but on a typewriter? Please provide links to back up your assertions. Well, the document that I posted http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif which was released by the Bush administration as proof that he served some of the time, does show the "th" that the GOP hired "experts" claim didn't exist at the time. That by itself proves the GOP hired "experts" are liars. I guess there is no surprise there. Here is a link to a USA today site with the "th". IBM had proportional based fonts since 1941, according to IBM. See http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html Times New Roman was designed in 1931. See here http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/times-roman/ There is an interesting analysis at http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000912.php "The first typewriter that used a proportional font was released prior to the turn of the century. More to the point, however, IBM released its first IBM Executive typewriter model in 1941. Called the IBM Executive Model A, it was IBM's first proportional electric typewriter. Three more IBM Executive models were released over the course of the next several decades, culminating in the IBM Executive Model D, which was released in the early '70s. While the IBM Executive was not as popular a typewriter model as the IBM Selectric it was still widely used. IBM produced it for three decades for a reason. " also read "Little Green Footballs claims to have reproduced the spacing, formatting and other characteristics of one of the memos (the 18 August 1973 "CYA" memo) using Microsoft Word in its default settings. LGF provides two screenshots to establish this, and claims that they are "identical in every respect". This is actually not the case. Even a cursory examination of the two examples shows that the baseline of the superscript "th" in the original (60 Minutes) version is aligned to be partially below the top of its neighboring letters. The "t" midpoint is exactly at the top of the "7". In the case of the Microsoft word version the top of the "t" aligns perfectly with the top of the "7". This inconsistency proves that the memorandum was not produced with a default version of Microsoft Word. " "By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters." There is probably no way to prove the documents are real, absent the originals. There are a couple of points worth considering. 1. The "experts" hired by the right wing have been caught lying. The proof that they have cited have been easily disproven. 2. The signitures has been authenticated. 3. The White House believes that the information contained within the documents is accurate and has not refuted it. 4. The people in the best position to know about the information contained within the documents have stated that the information is truthfull and accurate. "Tammy" wrote in message m... Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line "111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the 1930s. The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again. And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the memos is inaccurate. And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to Massachusetts). "Steve R." wrote in message news:9py0d.804$lX.337@trnddc04... "Bob" wrote in message ... On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall wrote: Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to one of those. snip This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam. CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic. They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos. Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review. "It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that." The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake. "They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984. Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery. Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said. "I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software. The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974. The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without reporting for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there. That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Mitchell Holman wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote in : Hugh Sedditt wrote: :I do get it. You're not even in the same country. :He was ordered to take the physical. Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a physical in my life. And what would happen if a current Guard pilot serving in Iraq grounded himself by not taking a scheduled flight physical? Simple. He's grounded, removed from flight status, and either relaesed from active duty, or re-assigned to another job. Any pilot or crewmwmber may voluntarily quit flying as a crewmwmber at any time. Flying duty is a volunteer hazardous duty, the same as parachute jump status, explosive ordnance disposal, and diving. |
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