DG505, DG500 Spoiler box does not drain and freezes

No moisture drain hole in the spoiler enclosures. Searched for any
blog or discussion group on this subject. No joy.

Waiting to hear back from the factory for a mod or some solution
besides a hangar or wing covers.

Doesn't water get in also flying through storms and perhaps freeze as
you go high enough?

Are all 500 and 505' the same?

Thanks.

Karen

Karen

Oh...Karen. Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy

guy wrote:
Oh...Karen. Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy

"No drain holes" may be the standard. My ASH 26 E does not have drain
holes in the spoiler boxes, and does not need them as long as the
spoilers are closed when it rains on the ground. If rain gets into the
boxes when flying, I've never heard of it happening; personally, I've
never looked in the boxes after flying through rain, but none ever
poured out when I derigged, either. If they are open when it rains, the
boxes will fill with water. The boxes are sealed, so it doesn't run into
the wing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

On Dec 9, 7:22*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
guy wrote:
Oh...Karen. *Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy

"No drain holes" may be the standard. My ASH 26 E does not have drain
holes in the spoiler boxes, and does not need them as long as the
spoilers are closed when it rains on the ground. If rain gets into the
boxes when flying, I've never heard of it happening; personally, I've
never looked in the boxes after flying through rain, but none ever
poured out when I derigged, either. If they are open when it rains, the
boxes will fill with water. The boxes are sealed, so it doesn't run into
the wing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

The boxes are sealed but the lower floor of the box usually is or
touches the bottom wing skin so if you really wanted to you could
drill a hole right there through the lower skin. Your A&P may have a
different idea.

But why? I suspect the largest issue with spoiler freezing is by rain
wicking around the spoiler door and freezing or by direct icing
action. Having enough water inside the spoiler box and having that
freeze seems a remote case. And you need to have enough for that to
freeze and lock onto something important to stop the blades extending.
I suspect that would take quite a lot of water.

Although my ASH-26E usually lives in a trailer sometimes it is left
out overnight and in the the morning even after light rain I normally
see no water in the spoiler boxes. After washing with a hose I'll see
a bit of water inside the spoiler box. Same on a club DG-1000S. Just
to be nice I usually mop any water out with a dry rag more because I
don't want moisture in there encouraging rust etc. not from concern
about freezing.

If the glider is permanently kept outside then a set of good wing
covers are probably an answer to lots of questions.


Darryl

On Dec 9, 8:58*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Dec 9, 7:22*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:





guy wrote:
Oh...Karen. *Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy

"No drain holes" may be the standard. My ASH 26 E does not have drain
holes in the spoiler boxes, and does not need them as long as the
spoilers are closed when it rains on the ground. If rain gets into the
boxes when flying, I've never heard of it happening; personally, I've
never looked in the boxes after flying through rain, but none ever
poured out when I derigged, either. If they are open when it rains, the
boxes will fill with water. The boxes are sealed, so it doesn't run into
the wing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

The boxes are sealed but the lower floor of the box usually is or
touches the bottom wing skin so if you really wanted to you could
drill a hole right there through the lower skin. Your A&P may have a
different idea.

But why? I suspect the largest issue with spoiler freezing is by rain
wicking around the spoiler door and freezing or by direct icing
action. Having enough water inside the spoiler box and having that
freeze seems a remote case. And you need to have enough for that to
freeze and lock onto something important to stop the blades extending.
I suspect that would take quite a lot of water.

Although my ASH-26E usually lives in a trailer sometimes it is left
out overnight and in the the morning even after light rain I normally
see no water in the spoiler boxes. After washing with a hose I'll see
a bit of water inside the spoiler box. Same on a club DG-1000S. Just
to be nice I usually mop any water out with a dry rag more because I
don't want moisture in there encouraging rust etc. not from concern
about freezing.

If the glider is permanently kept outside then a set of good wing
covers are probably an answer to lots of questions.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Boy, I thought you guys were glider pilots! There is no "drain"
because that would be a path for high pressure air from the bottom of
the wing to escape to low pressure air on top, creating drag.

Tom

On Dec 9, 10:11*pm, 2G wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:58*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Dec 9, 7:22*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

guy wrote:
Oh...Karen. *Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy

"No drain holes" may be the standard. My ASH 26 E does not have drain
holes in the spoiler boxes, and does not need them as long as the
spoilers are closed when it rains on the ground. If rain gets into the
boxes when flying, I've never heard of it happening; personally, I've
never looked in the boxes after flying through rain, but none ever
poured out when I derigged, either. If they are open when it rains, the
boxes will fill with water. The boxes are sealed, so it doesn't run into
the wing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

The boxes are sealed but the lower floor of the box usually is or
touches the bottom wing skin so if you really wanted to you could
drill a hole right there through the lower skin. Your A&P may have a
different idea.

But why? I suspect the largest issue with spoiler freezing is by rain
wicking around the spoiler door and freezing or by direct icing
action. Having enough water inside the spoiler box and having that
freeze seems a remote case. And you need to have enough for that to
freeze and lock onto something important to stop the blades extending.
I suspect that would take quite a lot of water.

Although my ASH-26E usually lives in a trailer sometimes it is left
out overnight and in the the morning even after light rain I normally
see no water in the spoiler boxes. After washing with a hose I'll see
a bit of water inside the spoiler box. Same on a club DG-1000S. Just
to be nice I usually mop any water out with a dry rag more because I
don't want moisture in there encouraging rust etc. not from concern
about freezing.

If the glider is permanently kept outside then a set of good wing
covers are probably an answer to lots of questions.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Boy, I thought you guys were glider pilots! There is no "drain"
because that would be a path for high pressure air from the bottom of
the wing to escape to low pressure air on top, creating drag.

Tom

I don't think the wing interior to spoiler box connection (where the
control rods enter the spoiler box) is all that airtight on most
gliders and will see ambient internal wing/fueslage pressure, some of
which will leak out around the spoiler box top, but modern spring
loaded tops seal pretty well. So I am not sure that a small hole in
the bottom would increase that leak rate significantly. But hey, if
done really well you've got yourself a blown turbolator :-)

There are gliders around with holes drilled in the bottoms of the
spoiler box, for attaching wing tie down hardware. Normally I'd tape
those but you'd never measure the difference if not.


Darryl

2G wrote:

Boy, I thought you guys were glider pilots! There is no "drain"
because that would be a path for high pressure air from the bottom of
the wing to escape to low pressure air on top, creating drag.

Tom

Good one Tom. Draggy or CofG in limits. Which would you prefer?

Brian W

Darryl Ramm wrote:

The boxes are sealed but the lower floor of the box usually is or
touches the bottom wing skin so if you really wanted to you could
drill a hole right there through the lower skin. Your A&P may have a
different idea.

But why? /snip/

Darryl

Drains are fitted to powered airframes because it takes relatively
little trapped water to give a very nasty aft pitching (or rolling)
moment...

Brian W

Darryl:

I agree. I have limited experience with spoiler freezing in flight but
both times, the spoiler caps froze to the little ledges that they mate
with. The amount of water required to have this happen is very small and
therefore the preflight inspection should include a careful look at the
caps and ledges. If you encounter rain in flight and then climb above
the freezing level, cycling them often should help keep them functioning.

Paul
ZZ



Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Dec 9, 7:22 pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
guy wrote:
Oh...Karen. Why fret.
Just return the plane to the factory and they will add those drain
holes they forgot to place as a free warranty repair.
Great customer service!
Guy
"No drain holes" may be the standard. My ASH 26 E does not have drain
holes in the spoiler boxes, and does not need them as long as the
spoilers are closed when it rains on the ground. If rain gets into the
boxes when flying, I've never heard of it happening; personally, I've
never looked in the boxes after flying through rain, but none ever
poured out when I derigged, either. If they are open when it rains, the
boxes will fill with water. The boxes are sealed, so it doesn't run into
the wing.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

The boxes are sealed but the lower floor of the box usually is or
touches the bottom wing skin so if you really wanted to you could
drill a hole right there through the lower skin. Your A&P may have a
different idea.

But why? I suspect the largest issue with spoiler freezing is by rain
wicking around the spoiler door and freezing or by direct icing
action. Having enough water inside the spoiler box and having that
freeze seems a remote case. And you need to have enough for that to
freeze and lock onto something important to stop the blades extending.
I suspect that would take quite a lot of water.

Although my ASH-26E usually lives in a trailer sometimes it is left
out overnight and in the the morning even after light rain I normally
see no water in the spoiler boxes. After washing with a hose I'll see
a bit of water inside the spoiler box. Same on a club DG-1000S. Just
to be nice I usually mop any water out with a dry rag more because I
don't want moisture in there encouraging rust etc. not from concern
about freezing.

If the glider is permanently kept outside then a set of good wing
covers are probably an answer to lots of questions.


Darryl

On Dec 12, 7:53*pm, ZZ wrote:

...both times, the spoiler caps froze to the little ledges that they mate
with...

That sounds to me like a good argument for keeping the airbrake cap
mating surfaces waxed. if epoxy won't stick to wax, I can't imagine
that ice would.

Thanks, Bob K.