lease back financing 5, 10, 20 years

Calling all owners that leaseback a plane to a club or FBO or ??

I have found that financers offer different loans depending on
the who uses the plane. For a club they want 10 years or less
but for private they will finance up to 20 years. Maybe I just need
to keep looking. I don't quite undertand why they would care as
long as they get paid.

So if you are leasing a plane back what kinds of loans were you
able to get?


The 20 year loans are ideal for so many reasons.

R. Hubbell

I got 20 from MBNA on a new plane. They do did ask if you plan to use a
leaseback.

The reason they are asking is that when Cessna unloaded a lot of planes
cheaply a year or two ago, many skyhawk owners found out that they were
upside down in their leaseback planes. At the same time hours were dropping
and some of them walked away from the deal because they were really broke,
or just mad. The finance company gets stuck.

Those that ask usually want no more than a 10 year note on a leaseback,
which you MAY be able to negotiate up with a larger down payment. Or you
can fib, just make sure that there is no language in the contract to prevent
you from later deciding to put the plane on leaseback.

Shop around, it took me two months, but I got the loan I wanted.


"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
Calling all owners that leaseback a plane to a club or FBO or ??

I have found that financers offer different loans depending on
the who uses the plane. For a club they want 10 years or less
but for private they will finance up to 20 years. Maybe I just need
to keep looking. I don't quite undertand why they would care as
long as they get paid.

So if you are leasing a plane back what kinds of loans were you
able to get?


The 20 year loans are ideal for so many reasons.

R. Hubbell

"Dude" wrote in message ...

Those that ask usually want no more than a 10 year note on a leaseback,
which you MAY be able to negotiate up with a larger down payment. Or you
can fib, just make sure that there is no language in the contract to prevent
you from later deciding to put the plane on leaseback.

Believe me, MBNA specifically places that restriction in the loan documents.
I had to get a "consent to leaseback" from them when I had my plane on leaseback.

Of course, MBNA seems to have gone down hill, following the fine tendency
for any AOPA recommended service to be a good deal for nobody but AOPA.
They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.

They have the documents available on line, so you can check.


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"Dude" wrote in message
...

Those that ask usually want no more than a 10 year note on a leaseback,
which you MAY be able to negotiate up with a larger down payment. Or
you
can fib, just make sure that there is no language in the contract to
prevent
you from later deciding to put the plane on leaseback.

Believe me, MBNA specifically places that restriction in the loan
documents.
I had to get a "consent to leaseback" from them when I had my plane on
leaseback.

Of course, MBNA seems to have gone down hill, following the fine tendency
for any AOPA recommended service to be a good deal for nobody but AOPA.
They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and
insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the
loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:23:33 -0500 "Ron Natalie" wrote:


"Dude" wrote in message ...

Those that ask usually want no more than a 10 year note on a leaseback,
which you MAY be able to negotiate up with a larger down payment. Or you
can fib, just make sure that there is no language in the contract to prevent
you from later deciding to put the plane on leaseback.

Believe me, MBNA specifically places that restriction in the loan documents.
I had to get a "consent to leaseback" from them when I had my plane on leaseback.

So they limited you to a 10 year note?



Of course, MBNA seems to have gone down hill, following the fine tendency
for any AOPA recommended service to be a good deal for nobody but AOPA.
They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.


what other services have they screwed up?


R. Hubbell

"R.Hubbell" wrote in message ...
Believe me, MBNA specifically places that restriction in the loan documents.
I had to get a "consent to leaseback" from them when I had my plane on leaseback.

So they limited you to a 10 year note?


Don't know. I only asked for a ten year note.

what other services have they screwed up?

I haven't found any of their allied services to be a good deal: insurance, car rental
discounts, etc...

Ron Natalie wrote:

They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.

I just got word that MBNA is taking over my VISA account from my credit union. I'm
not looking forward to it.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

Of course, MBNA seems to have gone down hill, following the fine tendency
for any AOPA recommended service to be a good deal for nobody but AOPA.
They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and
insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the
loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.


I'd be wiling to go out on a limb and offer the opinion that nearly all of
the credit companies have become more difficult. Don't put the blame solely
on AOPA. As the interest rates the creditors pay to the Fed to borrow money
has been very low for quite a few years, the overall interest rates paid by
the public has either held fast, or risen. The only notable exception to
this seems to be home loans; and the money there seems to be in refinancing
fees rather than interest. Possibly this is because the majority of home
loans do not run out the term. They are either refinanced by the original
borrower, or the home is sold and the loan is paid off early.

MBNA and CitiBank both seem to be pretty poor at customer "service" and damn
good at assessing late fees and punitive interest rates for someone who's
payment is even ONE day past their deadline. I STRONGLY suspect that there
is a delay in processing payments just to push more people into the late
category. My suspicions are based on USPS delivery receipts and the
tracking of delivery dates and times. I was told by one CitiBank customer
"service" employee that payments received after 10AM on a given BUSINESS day
are credited the NEXT business day. However, interest is calculated on a
DAILY basis; so, a FRIDAY noon receipt of a payment is credited on Monday
and is therefore THREE days late! Pretty clever, don't you think? MBNA
seems to be operating on many of the same principals. I have heard, but
been unable to verify that CitiBank and MBNA are actually subsidiaries of
the same corporation. My CitiBank account is closed, and the MBNA isn't
used much either. My other Mastercard has just been transferred (hijacked?)
by Citibank, so I guess I'll have to drop that one into the shreadder too.

If things don't change dramatically, I don't know how I'm going to be able
to secure financing in a year or so for ANY kind of modest, 30-year old
plane. If I have to wait until I can pay cash for a plane, I'll be too old
to learn to fly it! (sigh) :-((

Gary Kasten

VideoGuy wrote:

If things don't change dramatically, I don't know how I'm going to be able
to secure financing in a year or so for ANY kind of modest, 30-year old
plane.

May be a long shot, but if you're a credit union member, you may be able to finance
through them. I bought both my planes using loans from credit unions. One of those
CUs doesn't finance aircraft anymore, though.

George Patterson
Love, n.: A form of temporary insanity afflicting the young. It is curable
either by marriage or by removal of the afflicted from the circumstances
under which he incurred the condition. It is sometimes fatal, but more
often to the physician than to the patient.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:19:21 -0600 "VideoGuy" gkasten at brick dot net wrote:


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

Of course, MBNA seems to have gone down hill, following the fine tendency
for any AOPA recommended service to be a good deal for nobody but AOPA.
They so screwed up my account and ****ed off both my mechanic and
insurance
agent...that it was easier for me to just pay off the remainder of the
loan than
to deal with the arrogant asshole there.


I'd be wiling to go out on a limb and offer the opinion that nearly all of
the credit companies have become more difficult. Don't put the blame solely
on AOPA. As the interest rates the creditors pay to the Fed to borrow money
has been very low for quite a few years, the overall interest rates paid by
the public has either held fast, or risen. The only notable exception to
this seems to be home loans; and the money there seems to be in refinancing
fees rather than interest. Possibly this is because the majority of home
loans do not run out the term. They are either refinanced by the original
borrower, or the home is sold and the loan is paid off early.


Credit card rates are high because so many people run up debt and then just
bail on it. The ability to file for bankruptcy is a foundation of our system
but it is abused of course. So credit card debt is risky, hence the higher
rates. Banks manage risk. Everyone manages risk now that I think of it.



MBNA and CitiBank both seem to be pretty poor at customer "service" and damn
good at assessing late fees and punitive interest rates for someone who's
payment is even ONE day past their deadline. I STRONGLY suspect that there
is a delay in processing payments just to push more people into the late
category. My suspicions are based on USPS delivery receipts and the
tracking of delivery dates and times. I was told by one CitiBank customer
"service" employee that payments received after 10AM on a given BUSINESS day
are credited the NEXT business day. However, interest is calculated on a
DAILY basis; so, a FRIDAY noon receipt of a payment is credited on Monday
and is therefore THREE days late! Pretty clever, don't you think? MBNA
seems to be operating on many of the same principals. I have heard, but
been unable to verify that CitiBank and MBNA are actually subsidiaries of
the same corporation. My CitiBank account is closed, and the MBNA isn't
used much either. My other Mastercard has just been transferred (hijacked?)
by Citibank, so I guess I'll have to drop that one into the shreadder too.


I have found that local banks or credit unions are much nicer to do business
with. Of course they don't usually offer aircraft financing.


If things don't change dramatically, I don't know how I'm going to be able
to secure financing in a year or so for ANY kind of modest, 30-year old
plane. If I have to wait until I can pay cash for a plane, I'll be too old
to learn to fly it! (sigh) :-((


A 30 yr. old plane financed over 20 years can give you pretty low monthly
payments. If you plan to be the sole flyer it's not too bad.

BTW you can never be too old to learn to fly!


R. Hubbell


Gary Kasten