Avoid head-on collision? Forward facing LED strobe?

So how many of us have flown along close to cloudbase under a cloud street, and suddenly seen another glider pass us on the opposite heading?

It's obviously hard to see a glider that is coming straight at you.

So what about a narrow beam LED strobe aligned with the glide path vector... would the other glider see it? Would it be legal? Could you shine it through the canopy with a baffle to block internal reflections?

Has anyone done this?

I once saw another glider coming towards me on a ridge with wing tip strobes. It really got my attention and in plenty of time. So I kinda think that this would work.

LED strobe may be a good idea.
FLARM is good at the head on case.
Tom



At 00:14 25 July 2012, son_of_flubber wrote:
So how many of us have flown along close to cloudbase under a cloud
street,
and suddenly seen another glider pass us on the opposite heading?

It's obviously hard to see a glider that is coming straight at you.

So what about a narrow beam LED strobe aligned with the glide path
vector... would the other glider see it? Would it be legal? Could you
shine it through the canopy with a baffle to block internal reflections?

Has anyone done this?

I once saw another glider coming towards me on a ridge with wing tip
strobes. It really got my attention and in plenty of time. So I kinda
think that this would work.

On 7/24/2012 8:55 PM, Tom Claffey wrote:
LED strobe may be a good idea.
FLARM is good at the head on case.
Tom

It's my understanding that head-on collisions are very small part of the
mid-air collisions; if so, the narrow beam strobe won't make much
difference. Flarm finds the gliders coming from all sides, the ones you
can't see before they hit you.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

LED strobe is not a bad idea. Compared to FLARM the cost is
very small, and installation easy. If you have LED strobe, all
other planes will see you, not only those with FLARM.

At 04:18 25 July 2012, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 7/24/2012 8:55 PM, Tom Claffey wrote:
LED strobe may be a good idea.
FLARM is good at the head on case.
Tom

It's my understanding that head-on collisions are very small
part of the
mid-air collisions; if so, the narrow beam strobe won't make
much
difference. Flarm finds the gliders coming from all sides, the
ones you
can't see before they hit you.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to
".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS,
Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004"
Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

At 08:14 25 July 2012, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

Kimmo,

It does if you have the right equipment and set it up properly. LX8000 /
9000 with voice shows you and tells you where the other glider is.

Link your Flarm to any navigation display, for example LK8000, you can
maintain awareness of other gliders and will have a vey good idea where to
look if a glider triggers a warning. This works very much better than the
standard Flarm display, and IMO better than the various Flarm analogue
displays (though I have one fitted as belt and braces).

Mike

At 10:11 25 July 2012, Michael Clarke wrote:
At 08:14 25 July 2012, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not
really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I
got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

Kimmo,

It does if you have the right equipment and set it up properly.
LX8000 /
9000 with voice shows you and tells you where the other glider
is.

Link your Flarm to any navigation display, for example LK8000,
you can
maintain awareness of other gliders and will have a vey good
idea where to
look if a glider triggers a warning. This works very much better
than the
standard Flarm display, and IMO better than the various Flarm
analogue
displays (though I have one fitted as belt and braces).

Mike



I agree Mike. Therefore I was involved in development of
Soartronic devices, to make FLARM / PDA connections easy &
low cost. Voice warning might be a good idea, but transferring
information takes time?
FLARM systems seem to have blind points. I would like to have a
system, that helps maintaining awareness of nearby planes,
even when FLARM signal is temporally lost. LK8000 seems to
have some fresh ideas.

At 10:11 25 July 2012, Michael Clarke wrote:
At 08:14 25 July 2012, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not
really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I
got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

Kimmo,

It does if you have the right equipment and set it up properly.
LX8000 /
9000 with voice shows you and tells you where the other glider
is.

Link your Flarm to any navigation display, for example LK8000,
you can
maintain awareness of other gliders and will have a vey good
idea where to
look if a glider triggers a warning. This works very much better
than the
standard Flarm display, and IMO better than the various Flarm
analogue
displays (though I have one fitted as belt and braces).

Mike



I agree Mike. Therefore I was involved in development of
Soartronic devices, to make FLARM / PDA connections easy &
low cost. Voice warning might be a good idea, but transferring
information takes time?
FLARM systems seem to have blind points. I would like to have a
system, that helps maintaining awareness of nearby planes,
even when FLARM signal is temporally lost. LK8000 seems to
have some fresh ideas.

On 7/25/2012 1:14 AM, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

LED strobe is not a bad idea. Compared to FLARM the cost is
very small, and installation easy. If you have LED strobe, all
other planes will see you, not only those with FLARM.

Are you still talking about a single, forward facing strobe, like the
original poster? If so, a glider coming up below or behind you will not
see the strobe.

If the strobes are placed so they can be seen from all sides, it might
be more useful; however, gaggling might be very distracting! I think
someone has to try this to determine how well it works.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On 7/25/2012 1:14 AM, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
> FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not really
> tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I got
> FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.


The original post from Kimmo was that FLARM indicated a glider in his visual range he could not see. This is not an unusual situation for airplanes even where ATC has called out the traffic. Visual aids like lights can be very useful.

Let's imagine a further step in technology. FLARM equipped aircraft know the exact 3D position of each other. An algorithm could operate a small gimbaled device like a remote pan & tilt camera mount which could aim a bright and narrow LED beam directly at the other pilot rendering that aircraft visible.

In article Eric Greenwell writes:
On 7/25/2012 1:14 AM, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
FLARM tells you that there is another glider. It does not really
tell you where it is - you need to look and find it. Week ago I got
FLARM warning, without seeing the another plane.

LED strobe is not a bad idea. Compared to FLARM the cost is
very small, and installation easy. If you have LED strobe, all
other planes will see you, not only those with FLARM.

Are you still talking about a single, forward facing strobe, like the
original poster? If so, a glider coming up below or behind you will not
see the strobe.

If the strobes are placed so they can be seen from all sides, it might
be more useful; however, gaggling might be very distracting! I think
someone has to try this to determine how well it works.

From what I have seen advertized, LED 'strobe' systems have fairly low
power consumption. Putting a set on with 360 degree visibility would seem
to be a good idea.

There are lots of situations where a glider is pretty close to invisible.
Flashing strobes could help in a lot of them.

Alan