Gather local wind data

Hi
I have developed a system "Windsond" to gather local wind data at different altitudes in an easy way. This is done by launching a 60 liter helium balloon with electronics that transmits back sensor data as it ascends. On the ground, a laptop receives the data and displays diagrams of wind speed, direction and temperature.

The idea is not new, and weather balloons are indeed launched daily all over the world. The novel thing is the light weight and low cost, for a system adapted for altitudes up to 3000m. We use this for hot air balloons where we also recover the electronics again with a success rate around 80%.
More information and pictures he http://kiwiembedded.com/windsond/

From discussing with a glider pilot, it seems this could be interesting for your sport as well. But you also want humidity readings, right? I'm interested in your comments and what potential you see. Looking forward to hear from you either here or on email .

Thanks for your time,
/Anders Petersson
Embedded systems designer

On Friday, September 14, 2012 8:12:25 AM UTC-5, Anders Petersson wrote:
Hi I have developed a system "Windsond" to gather local wind data at different altitudes in an easy way. This is done by launching a 60 liter helium balloon with electronics that transmits back sensor data as it ascends. On the ground, a laptop receives the data and displays diagrams of wind speed, direction and temperature. The idea is not new, and weather balloons are indeed launched daily all over the world. The novel thing is the light weight and low cost, for a system adapted for altitudes up to 3000m. We use this for hot air balloons where we also recover the electronics again with a success rate around 80%. More information and pictures he http://kiwiembedded.com/windsond/ From discussing with a glider pilot, it seems this could be interesting for your sport as well. But you also want humidity readings, right? I'm interested in your comments and what potential you see. Looking forward to hear from you either here or on email . Thanks for your time, /Anders Petersson Embedded systems designer

Temp and dew point readings would be most important. what is the approximate cost for each unit? I could definitely see this being used during contests to get a local real life sounding instead of depending on computer model forecasts. If cheap enough it potentially could be used for every weekend club operations too.

On Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29:31 AM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
On Friday, September 14, 2012 8:12:25 AM UTC-5, Anders Petersson wrote:

Hi I have developed a system "Windsond" to gather local wind data at different altitudes in an easy way. This is done by launching a 60 liter helium balloon with electronics that transmits back sensor data as it ascends. On the ground, a laptop receives the data and displays diagrams of wind speed, direction and temperature. The idea is not new, and weather balloons are indeed launched daily all over the world. The novel thing is the light weight and low cost, for a system adapted for altitudes up to 3000m. We use this for hot air balloons where we also recover the electronics again with a success rate around 80%. More information and pictures he http://kiwiembedded.com/windsond/ From discussing with a glider pilot, it seems this could be interesting for your sport as well. But you also want humidity readings, right? I'm interested in your comments and what potential you see. Looking forward to hear from you either here or on email . Thanks for your time, /Anders Petersson Embedded systems designer



Temp and dew point readings would be most important. what is the approximate cost for each unit? I could definitely see this being used during contests to get a local real life sounding instead of depending on computer model forecasts. If cheap enough it potentially could be used for every weekend club operations too.

I agree. A higher release altitude is needed -- minimum 2km for US East Coast
or Europe; as much as 6000m in the West where only airspace is the limit.
In the EDT time zone (UTC -4) the weather service data isn't available until
9am, which isn't long before the usual pilot meeting. Weather briefers
are stuck using model data based on measurements taken 10 hours earlier,
and checking at the last minute a measurement taken 100s of km away.
I don't know much about balloon parameters so I can't say exactly what this
will do to the sonde capabilities needed.

I could see this as being useful for wave camp, in which case a 7000m altitude
would be needed, plus a long slant range because the wind velocities would be
higher (100km/hr is typical for a wave day). However, that's an extreme case.
For wave flights we like to launch early in the day before convection starts,
so, again, we depend on stale measurements taken a long ways away.

-- Matt

Thank you for your comments!

I have used Windsond up to 2.5km altitude. The current solution can do higher but I haven't checked exactly how high. I understand you want as high as possible but at some point the increased technical demands starts affecting the price of a sounding. If there's much interest in this I'll look more into it and give a better answer.

I'm aiming for a price point under $150 per unit. The exchange rate is unfavorable for USD at the moment.

My biggest interest is in temperature versus altitude in the first 1KM to 1..5KM above the surface. This will let you know where the cap that might kill the day exists. I had started a project for this some years ago, and since the wind usually blows here in Kansas, I was looking to use a couple of kites to lift the package. It would always stay within the confines of the airport, and would have much lower recurring cost than a helium balloon. I would be intereted in a package that gets temperature and altitude either logged on board, or transmitted to a PC on the ground. And at $150 or so, I am very interested.

Steve Leonard

On 9/20/2012 9:25 AM, Steve Leonard wrote:
My biggest interest is in temperature versus altitude in the first
1KM to 1.5KM above the surface. This will let you know where the cap
that might kill the day exists. I had started a project for this
some years ago, and since the wind usually blows here in Kansas, I
was looking to use a couple of kites to lift the package. It would
always stay within the confines of the airport, and would have much
lower recurring cost than a helium balloon. I would be intereted in
a package that gets temperature and altitude either logged on board,
or transmitted to a PC on the ground. And at $150 or so, I am very
interested.

Have you found the NWS lapse rate forecasts inadequate?

http://rucsoundings.noaa.gov/

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I once toyed with an idea of putting a temp/rh/pressure logger on a RC
plane with an autopilot. It would climb on its own, gather data, come
back to the launch site and fly in circles until an operator turns on
a radio and guides it to a landing.

I decided against it because of legal issues. While I do not know all
the relevant laws, I am pretty sure that an amateur-built UAV flying
close to an airway (that's where my club is located) would be frowned
upon.

I am sure that unmanned balloons and rockets are subject to their own
regulations.

On the other hand, building a sensor package to be carried by an
ultralight or a kite would be relatively easy.

Bart


On Sep 14, 6:12*am, Anders Petersson wrote:
Hi
I have developed a system "Windsond" to gather local wind data at different altitudes in an easy way. This is done by launching a 60 liter helium balloon with electronics that transmits back sensor data as it ascends. On the ground, a laptop receives the data and displays diagrams of wind speed, direction and temperature.

The idea is not new, and weather balloons are indeed launched daily all over the world. The novel thing is the light weight and low cost, for a system adapted for altitudes up to 3000m. We use this for hot air balloons where we also recover the electronics again with a success rate around 80%.
More information and pictures hehttp://kiwiembedded.com/windsond/

From discussing with a glider pilot, it seems this could be interesting for your sport as well. But you also want humidity readings, right? I'm interested in your comments and what potential you see. Looking forward to hear from you either here or on email .

Thanks for your time,
/Anders Petersson
*Embedded systems designer

Hi again
I'm sorry I disappeared from the discussion. I thought I would get email notifications of new replies.

The technical solution has become more mature since September. It now supports humidity measurements. Radio range is much improved and testing will hopefully confirm support for altitudes of 7-9 km.
The weight is optimized to the point where 30 liters of helium should suffice. This makes a sounding very cheap as long as the electronics is recovered. We're looking into offering a variant for one-time use but haven't determined what pricing is possible yet.

As for alternatives, I don't see how a kite could measure winds and altitude is limited indeed. Results from a rocket would be inaccurate due to high vertical speed. In both cases, the payload can detach at peak altitude and take measurements while falling to the ground. That would mean the electronics still has to be retrieved some distance away.
A helium balloon is cheap but these other solutions would also work with Windsond. Approximate GPS coordinates of landing site together with loudspeaker, radio beacon and flashes of light makes it easy to recover.

We're now working to estimate the market to motivate production. In parallel, I'm doing development and testing. Your comments are valuable!

Regards
/Anders Petersson

Good that you are making progress, Anders! Keep us posted!

Steve

Why not just put the instrument package into a radio control aircraft (aka: Drone) and fly it as high as you want and have it come back home with your $150 instrument package? Surely someone has come up with an R/C autopilot system by to to deal with the issues of visually flying an aircraft you cant see.