My first hour in a complex aircraft, the Beech V35B

With the ownership formalities almost complete, today was the first day
of my transition to a complex aircraft, a '73 Beech Bonanza V35B. On
this cold but clear Northeast US afternoon, the instructor and soon-to-
be-previous owner both took turns flying the first leg while I sat in
the back, taking note of the particulars of leaning a turbo-normalized,
Gami-injected engine.

After a short climb, cruse, and descent demonstration, the owner landed
at a sleepy uncontrolled airport, taxied down to the approach end, then
shut it down. We all swapped seats so that the s-t-b-previous owner was
in the back, I was in the left seat, and the instructor was in the right
for the beginning of my instruction.

It was apparent that my 550 hours of experience in a slower, high-wing
aircraft etched a different outside picture than what I was now seeing.
I was not used to all that visibility in the V35 and my first
inclination was to climb steeper on takeoff than was comfortable for the
previous owner (and ultimately, the aircraft's engine). Lower the nose
a bit, gear up, prop back to 2500 RPM, and retrim. 110 kts on the
climb.

At level cruise, I had a tendency to drift up 300 to 500 fpm. Again, at
this attitude the extra visibility fooled me into thinking the aircraft
was in a descent, causing me to subconsciously pitch up.

The instructor requested a few turns, then sent me back to the
uncontrolled airport for my first landing. Slow down before entering
the 45, gear down, which dropped the airspeed from 140 to about 110 kts,
then turn downwind. Wow, are we moving fast on the downwind.

GUMPS check on downwind, turn base, GUMPS check on base, turn final,
GUMPS check on final. Yep, the was gear still down.

My first landing was a bit slow, as I pulled power back too fast on
short final. The stall warning horn went off about a second before
mains touched. The previous owner commented that I was too slow. Did I
mention that I had a different outside approach picture than the one I
was used to?

We pulled off the runway, I cleaned it up, then back to the approach end
for my second takeoff and return to our class C airport. Twilight was
now turning to night, so by the time we reached the class C airport, my
second landing in this aircraft was a night landing.

This time, I slowly pulled power back as we crossed the fence and was
able to maintain a more comfortable airspeed right to a smooth
touchdown. As a few Bonanza owners in this group commented, this
aircraft does appear to land easily.

On the ground and in the warmth of the FBO, the instructor and I had an
informative debriefing. I then scheduled him for several more days over
the next two weeks. This will be a challenging, yet fun transition.

--
Peter







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Pete.. enjoy the Transition... you'll learn to keep trimming nose down for
cruise as the airspeed climbs to cruise.. that was also causing some of the
300ft gains in altitude on level off..

Learn the engine.. and learn the numbers.. an old "Flying by the Numbers"
article in Flying Magazine really hits home with the Bonanza, especially
when you start work on the instrument rating. You will learn what power
setting to use to get the airspeed you want. Set the power, level off at an
altitude and the airspeed will be what you want. It works great coming into
a VFR pattern also, you'll learn what power setting with gear extended or
not will give you the airspeed you want on downwind. That way you can
concentrate more on the outside instead of the inside. Set the power, level
off, and then just a glance at airspeed to confirm.

As for the 3xGUMPS check.. welcome to the club. It pays dividends, My
"Mantra" when ever I roll out on final, and again just over the fence, "On
Final, On Speed (or call the speed and correction you are making), 3 Green
(gear), Flaps (call the position), Prop (hi), Mixture, Cleared to Land"

Also look into the Bonanza Owners Flight Course.

BT
"Peter R." wrote in message
...
With the ownership formalities almost complete, today was the first day
of my transition to a complex aircraft, a '73 Beech Bonanza V35B. On
this cold but clear Northeast US afternoon, the instructor and soon-to-
be-previous owner both took turns flying the first leg while I sat in
the back, taking note of the particulars of leaning a turbo-normalized,
Gami-injected engine.

After a short climb, cruse, and descent demonstration, the owner landed
at a sleepy uncontrolled airport, taxied down to the approach end, then
shut it down. We all swapped seats so that the s-t-b-previous owner was
in the back, I was in the left seat, and the instructor was in the right
for the beginning of my instruction.

It was apparent that my 550 hours of experience in a slower, high-wing
aircraft etched a different outside picture than what I was now seeing.
I was not used to all that visibility in the V35 and my first
inclination was to climb steeper on takeoff than was comfortable for the
previous owner (and ultimately, the aircraft's engine). Lower the nose
a bit, gear up, prop back to 2500 RPM, and retrim. 110 kts on the
climb.

At level cruise, I had a tendency to drift up 300 to 500 fpm. Again, at
this attitude the extra visibility fooled me into thinking the aircraft
was in a descent, causing me to subconsciously pitch up.

The instructor requested a few turns, then sent me back to the
uncontrolled airport for my first landing. Slow down before entering
the 45, gear down, which dropped the airspeed from 140 to about 110 kts,
then turn downwind. Wow, are we moving fast on the downwind.

GUMPS check on downwind, turn base, GUMPS check on base, turn final,
GUMPS check on final. Yep, the was gear still down.

My first landing was a bit slow, as I pulled power back too fast on
short final. The stall warning horn went off about a second before
mains touched. The previous owner commented that I was too slow. Did I
mention that I had a different outside approach picture than the one I
was used to?

We pulled off the runway, I cleaned it up, then back to the approach end
for my second takeoff and return to our class C airport. Twilight was
now turning to night, so by the time we reached the class C airport, my
second landing in this aircraft was a night landing.

This time, I slowly pulled power back as we crossed the fence and was
able to maintain a more comfortable airspeed right to a smooth
touchdown. As a few Bonanza owners in this group commented, this
aircraft does appear to land easily.

On the ground and in the warmth of the FBO, the instructor and I had an
informative debriefing. I then scheduled him for several more days over
the next two weeks. This will be a challenging, yet fun transition.

--
Peter







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Peter R. wrote:

Nice timing. Today was my first time in a complex too: a '79 182RG.


The instructor requested a few turns, then sent me back to the
uncontrolled airport for my first landing. Slow down before entering
the 45, gear down, which dropped the airspeed from 140 to about 110 kts,
then turn downwind. Wow, are we moving fast on the downwind.

That was the theme of the trip for me: "wow, are we moving fast". How can
maneuvering speed be so slow if this thing wants to move so quickly?

My first landing was a bit slow, as I pulled power back too fast on
short final. The stall warning horn went off about a second before
mains touched. The previous owner commented that I was too slow. Did I
mention that I had a different outside approach picture than the one I
was used to?

I found myself struggling for the right power setting. What's the right
setting for a 500' descent? What's the right setting for downwind? What's
the right setting for...anything?

All that I found easy were climb and cruise, since those are well documented
in the POH.

The difference in the controls was also an issue. The throttle on the 172s
I've flown has been simple push/pull. I can control it with a fair amount
of precision w/o even looking. The 182 had a verner throttle. I could
twist, or I could hold the button and push/pull. But neither was really
"working" for me.

I know that this'll come...but it was frustrating to have to hunt for the
setting I wanted.

I found myself landing soft-field style, holding it up with a little extra
power just above the runway. But because the sight-picture was different,
I kept doing this a little high. And I'd bounce between relaxing it too
slowly and too quickly (see throttle differences above).

[...]
On the ground and in the warmth of the FBO, the instructor and I had an
informative debriefing. I then scheduled him for several more days over
the next two weeks. This will be a challenging, yet fun transition.

Lucky you. I have to wait a week for my next chance.

- Andrew

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In article ,
Peter R. wrote:

GUMPS check on downwind, turn base, GUMPS check on base, turn final,
GUMPS check on final. Yep, the was gear still down.

What really got me was when I was used to flying a retract and didn't
spend the last few minutes of each flight obsessing over the gear and
later driving home I'd have this pang of fear because I *couldn't
remember putting the gear down*. This lasts just long enough to realize
that I'd know by now if I hadn't.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Pete, ya did good....
Just a few parenthetical comments to stir the pot... you said the stall
warning horn went off 1 second before touch down and the owner said you were
slow... When would he recommend that you get the stall warning horn to go
off - after touch down? rhetorical question

Full stall landings are what you should be doing... With the wheels 6 inches
off, the nose should be up and the horn sounding when touchdown occurs...
The slower the speed at touchdown the lower the incident of landing
accidents...Now, this does not mean you should drag it onto the field with
the horn blatting from a quarter mile out and drop it from 6 feet up; but
get the plane established level with the runway and the throttle closed,
then keep it off, and keep it off, and keep it off, until the yoke is
against your chest and the horn is blatting before the wheels touch... Your
tires will thank you, the brake pads will thank you, and your pocketbook
will thank you... What the passengers think is not your problem...

No, this will not result in those perfect greasers that make passengers and
many pilots think you are Lindy reincarnated, but perfect greasers are not
perfect landings... I can make a perfect greaser at Vso + 30, every time
or nearly so... Does that make it a perfect landing? assuming I don't
blow a tire, or melt the brakes to avoid going off the end

So, what's the rule, Vso + 5, then 5 additional knots for each child, and 10
for the little wifey, and another 5 just to be sure? -and the FBO has to
use a cannon to shoot me down before I end up in the next county -

Let me relate an incident from ~15 years ago, coming in to my home field in
my Super Viking.... End of a long day, including bouncing through the
thermals for some 600 miles, and I was pooped... Fatigue let me get a bit
fast (about 7 or 8 knots) on approach and as I set up the flare and began to
wait for the stall horn I went sailing past a pair of the locals waiting to
take the runway... I was embarrassed because I knew I was fast long runway,
not a problem and I knew they were judging my landing... The following
Saturday I am in the pilots lounge and they came in and began to regale
everyone with my "perfect greaser"... They were drooling with compliments,
"jeez, you went past with the wheels 3" off the ground for half the runway
and just greased it on. I shoulda hadda movie camera." They were sincere
and they thought it was a compliment... Most of the hangers on in the
lounge also were giving me thumbs up, etc... Except for one old A&P from the
tail dragger era who simply gave me a long look over his glasses as he took
a sip of his coffee... I didn't let on that I was embarrassed about it,
though I could feel my ears get a bit red...

OK, this has been fun and should bring the experts out of their sandbag
bunkers... For getting checked out in your Vee Tailed Doktor Killer, you
follow exactly what your instructor wants you to do... Just keep my comments
in the back of your head and after it is signed off to you, then do some
systematic testing by slowing up by 2 knots each time until you find that
speed that is the best compromise in getting the stall horn before
touching...

denny

"Peter R." wrote in With the ownership
formalities almost complete, today was the first day
of my transition to a complex aircraft, a '73 Beech Bonanza V35B.

Dennis,

I agree. Many people tend to land the Bo way too fast.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:26:42 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote:

Pete, ya did good....
Just a few parenthetical comments to stir the pot... you said the stall
warning horn went off 1 second before touch down and the owner said you were
slow... When would he recommend that you get the stall warning horn to go
off - after touch down? rhetorical question

Full stall landings are what you should be doing... With the wheels 6 inches
off, the nose should be up and the horn sounding when touchdown occurs...
The slower the speed at touchdown the lower the incident of landing
accidents...Now, this does not mean you should drag it onto the field with
the horn blatting from a quarter mile out and drop it from 6 feet up; but

Dennis, you just reminded me of a spot landing contest in which I took
part some years ago.

One of the planes was a Cherokee 6 and the guy had it loaded. He had
three of his buddies in there that must have put it near gross.

He dragged it in, chopped the throttle and dumped the flaps.
That sucker dropped like some one had pulled the rug out from under
it. Man what a sound. It wounded like about half a dozen garbage cans
full of beer cans were dropped on the runway.

We couldn't find any damage, but I have never seen a plane hit that
hard before with out blood being spilled.

get the plane established level with the runway and the throttle closed,
then keep it off, and keep it off, and keep it off, until the yoke is
against your chest and the horn is blatting before the wheels touch... Your
tires will thank you, the brake pads will thank you, and your pocketbook
will thank you... What the passengers think is not your problem...

Actually the Bo likes to do this. If you are't "too high" the horn
will sound and then it will just "settle" instead of drop. I've done
it from three feet up (I didn't say that) and it was just a "thump",
rather than a bang.

It's very gentle when the stall breaks if you are in ground effect,
unlike what it does on approach stalls when not in ground effect.
:-))

With a bit of practice he should be able to land and turn off in
roughly 1500 feet without using the brakes. (not on a hot day with
high density altitude though).


No, this will not result in those perfect greasers that make passengers and
many pilots think you are Lindy reincarnated, but perfect greasers are not
perfect landings... I can make a perfect greaser at Vso + 30, every time
or nearly so... Does that make it a perfect landing? assuming I don't
blow a tire, or melt the brakes to avoid going off the end

So, what's the rule, Vso + 5, then 5 additional knots for each child, and 10
for the little wifey, and another 5 just to be sure? -and the FBO has to
use a cannon to shoot me down before I end up in the next county -

The majority want to be able to glide in and that is a good 10 to 15
knots faster than the "desired" speed according to the POH.


Let me relate an incident from ~15 years ago, coming in to my home field in
my Super Viking.... End of a long day, including bouncing through the
thermals for some 600 miles, and I was pooped... Fatigue let me get a bit
fast (about 7 or 8 knots) on approach and as I set up the flare and began to
wait for the stall horn I went sailing past a pair of the locals waiting to
take the runway... I was embarrassed because I knew I was fast long runway,
not a problem and I knew they were judging my landing... The following
Saturday I am in the pilots lounge and they came in and began to regale
everyone with my "perfect greaser"... They were drooling with compliments,
"jeez, you went past with the wheels 3" off the ground for half the runway
and just greased it on. I shoulda hadda movie camera." They were sincere
and they thought it was a compliment... Most of the hangers on in the
lounge also were giving me thumbs up, etc... Except for one old A&P from the
tail dragger era who simply gave me a long look over his glasses as he took
a sip of his coffee... I didn't let on that I was embarrassed about it,
though I could feel my ears get a bit red...

OK, this has been fun and should bring the experts out of their sandbag
bunkers... For getting checked out in your Vee Tailed Doktor Killer, you
follow exactly what your instructor wants you to do... Just keep my comments
in the back of your head and after it is signed off to you, then do some
systematic testing by slowing up by 2 knots each time until you find that
speed that is the best compromise in getting the stall horn before
touching...

All this from a guy who fly's a twin and used to fly a Viking...er ...
Super Viking. :-)) Although the Bo will float with excess speed
you really have to work at it cuz the durn things slow down so quickly
once the gear and full flaps are out. Although the demonstrated
cross wind is only 12 knots or so some of them will handle up to a 25
knot cross wind if the pilot is capable.

The only thing I'd add, it compare your landing distances to the POH.
The Bo is one plane where you should be able to match the POH on
landing distance without being an unpteen thousand hour pilot. If the
instructor has you using twice as much distance to stop I'd ask him
why (politely and maintaining a PC decorum)

As Dennis says, Bo pilots as a whole tend to land much faster than
necessary. Think of it this way, compare the landing distances for a
172 and then look at the figures for the Bo. I think you'll be
surprised. Last summer I had a 172 come in behind me and try to make
the first turn off on 06 (terminal building). I easily made the turn
off while he went on by in cloud of tire smoke.

OK, one more thing... They tend to be a bit unforgiving with full
stalls until you get used to them. Then you can put one in a stall and
hold it there. Even think about touching an aileron and you
definitely will get a chance to practice unusual attitude recovery.
snicker. In stalls they are strictly a rudder only airplane.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


denny

"Peter R." wrote in With the ownership
formalities almost complete, today was the first day
of my transition to a complex aircraft, a '73 Beech Bonanza V35B.

Yeah, and that was probably smoke from the nose wheel cuz the mains were
still 6" in the air...



"Roger Halstead" Last summer I had a 172
come in behind me and try to make
the first turn off on 06 (terminal building). I easily made the turn
off while he went on by in cloud of tire smoke.

Dennis O'Connor ) wrote:

Full stall landings are what you should be doing...

Interesting that most of you commented on this, which is what I was hoping
would happen. I always strive for full stall landings in the C172,
too, so receiving an earful about the stall warning horn going off from the
previous owner shook me up a little.

His point was that the heavier the aircraft, the more the nose will come
slamming down on the runway in a stalled landing. This pilot has a lot of
experience in twins, as well, if that explains anything.

I will definitely talk with my "transition" instructor about this.


--
Peter












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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:56:21 -0500, Peter R.
wrote:

Dennis O'Connor ) wrote:

Full stall landings are what you should be doing...

Interesting that most of you commented on this, which is what I was hoping
would happen. I always strive for full stall landings in the C172,
too, so receiving an earful about the stall warning horn going off from the
previous owner shook me up a little.

His point was that the heavier the aircraft, the more the nose will come
slamming down on the runway in a stalled landing. This pilot has a lot of
experience in twins, as well, if that explains anything.

Actually the Bo won't do that, at least not if it's in ground effect.
To get it to stall usually takes a "relatively" nose high attitude.
When it stalls onto the runway "from a normal height" the nose does
not drop at all. It stays put and the mains drop down which is kind
of a strange sensation at first. Sorta feels like over rotation and
you'll get to see that on soft field take offs. It you don't hold
the nose there, it will just settle onto the mains while staying in
the same attitude. The Bo has tremendous elevator authority and you
can keep the nose gear off down to.. as I guess I'd say, 30 or 40
MPH.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I will definitely talk with my "transition" instructor about this.